Stigma against video games in modern society

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Re: Stigma against video games in modern society

#21  Postby DarthHelmet86 » Aug 15, 2014 7:16 am

Do you normally make arguments from ignorance?

Gritty violence and tits are just as adult as serious drama and you can get both in games. Just like you can in books and movies.
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Re: Stigma against video games in modern society

#22  Postby Mazille » Aug 15, 2014 7:19 am

VazScep wrote:"Dastardly Achievement: Place a hogtied woman on the train tracks, and witness her death by train."

The woman in question is a carefully modelled female in her underwear propositioning you the whole time for sex.

Almost all modern computer games are fucking retarded. That's why there's a stigma. They need to grow the fuck up, and "gritty violence and tits" isn't a step-up from the adolescence of Duke Nukem (which I fucking loved, btw).


Red Dead Redemption, right?

Well, I guess this is how you fuck up a supposedly humorous homage to early silent films. Stupid and silly, yes, and surely far from what the medium can and has achieved in other games. Play Papers, Please, please (heh) and tell me again how all games are immature and fucking retarded.
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Re: Stigma against video games in modern society

#23  Postby DarthHelmet86 » Aug 15, 2014 7:29 am

It doesn't happen like that in the game at all though, it is also something the player decides to do the game in no way makes you do it. It is a joke achievement in homage to silent movies, hardly something that could be used to judge the game it is in or all games in general.
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Re: Stigma against video games in modern society

#24  Postby Mazille » Aug 15, 2014 7:32 am

Well, yes. Exactly what I said.
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Re: Stigma against video games in modern society

#25  Postby DarthHelmet86 » Aug 15, 2014 7:36 am

Your post reads to me like you are saying Rockstar fucked up putting in a joke that is only said to be funny.
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Re: Stigma against video games in modern society

#26  Postby Mazille » Aug 15, 2014 7:46 am

Yeah. It isn't funny. I get what they were aiming for, but the execution was lacking, as far as I see it. Mind you, I haven't played the game for longer than two hours on my brother's PS3, but from what I read and saw it's basically an achievement you can get by taking a random female NPC (of which there aren't that many to begin with), hog-tying it and leaving it on a railtrack.
Firstly, I don't think many people would even get the idea to do that, if it weren't for the achievement handing it to them.
Secondly, in an age where devs get a lot of flack for not having female or minority protagonists, the idea of specifically singling out female NPCs for what would be a particularly gruesome death for the sake of an obscure joke doesn't seem very wise to me. Thirdly, all PC deliberations aside, I just don't think an obscure wink at a very old-timey trope that probably wasn't that widespread to begin with and certainly has no cultural relevance now, is particularly clever or funny.

So yes, I think they fucked it up in a stupid way, but I'll not hold a grudge against them for it.

ETA: Also, for every such blunder there's a tale of complexity, introspection and empathy, of making gamers think and feel outside the box in games like Bastion, or Papers, Please, or even Spec Ops: The Line or Far Cry 3.
Sadly, there aren't enough counterparts to the insipid, grey, bland, designed-by-committee mush most of the big blockbusters incorporate. The boring samey-ness is what I take issue with in the gaming industry, not the occasional stupid blunder.
ETA2: Oh, and of course the shameless greed and shaking down of consumers for every last possible cent to counteract the ever ballooning, astronomical budgets for ever hollower AAA games.
Last edited by Mazille on Aug 15, 2014 8:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Stigma against video games in modern society

#27  Postby DarthHelmet86 » Aug 15, 2014 7:52 am

And I disagree in pretty much every way. It was a funny joke, paying homage to something I saw more than once in my childhood and it did nothing to the game to add it in there. Rockstar is well known for adding in little homages and references to culture and history.
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Re: Stigma against video games in modern society

#28  Postby Mazille » Aug 15, 2014 7:55 am

Which is fine. You have your funnies, I have mine. I didn't find it clever nor funny, you did. That's cool, but surely you can see how one can arrive at those different viewpoints and that they might have merit.
As I said, no skin off my back. Jokes can be hit or miss and I appreciate the effort, if nothing else. At least there was some creativity behind the stupidity, which is always preferable to risk-averse appeal to the bland middleground.
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Re: Stigma against video games in modern society

#29  Postby DarthHelmet86 » Aug 15, 2014 8:05 am

Oh no, I fully agree people can think it wasn't funny and that people can see the same thing but have different valid ideas about it. I was actually going to say pretty much that in my last post, talking about how games can stimulate conversation over even simple stupid shit like that. But I couldn't get it to sound right in my head so I cut it.
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Re: Stigma against video games in modern society

#30  Postby Animavore » Aug 15, 2014 8:08 am

Wait! You can do that?!
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Re: Stigma against video games in modern society

#31  Postby Mazille » Aug 15, 2014 8:10 am

DarthHelmet86 wrote:Oh no, I fully agree people can think it wasn't funny and that people can see the same thing but have different valid ideas about it. I was actually going to say pretty much that in my last post, talking about how games can stimulate conversation over even simple stupid shit like that. But I couldn't get it to sound right in my head so I cut it.

Those conversations depend more on the insights and interests of the gamers than on the games themselves, though. I'm pretty sure you can have stimulating conversations about most anything, as long as enough participants in the conversations have an adequate level of understanding of the topic, which says nothing about the quality of the topic at hand.

Animavore wrote:Wait! You can do that?!


Not sure about whether you can do that, Ani, but people in general might.
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Re: Stigma against video games in modern society

#32  Postby Mazille » Aug 15, 2014 8:12 am

I should have posted my edits separately. Now it looks like you disagree with my hate-boner for the big players, even though you didn't know I was going to say that when you disagreed.
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Re: Stigma against video games in modern society

#33  Postby DarthHelmet86 » Aug 15, 2014 8:14 am

Mazille wrote:
DarthHelmet86 wrote:Oh no, I fully agree people can think it wasn't funny and that people can see the same thing but have different valid ideas about it. I was actually going to say pretty much that in my last post, talking about how games can stimulate conversation over even simple stupid shit like that. But I couldn't get it to sound right in my head so I cut it.

Those conversations depend more on the insights and interests of the gamers than on the games themselves, though. I'm pretty sure you can have stimulating conversations about most anything, as long as enough participants in the conversations have an adequate level of understanding of the topic, which says nothing about the quality of the topic at hand.


This is true, but I think games with their ability to have two people experience wildly different events on their screens allows for a better conversation. No matter how many people watch a movie or read a book there is still only the images on the screen or the words on the paper, many games go beyond that allowing people to talk not only about what was intended to be seen but how they affected the world or how what they saw differed from others.
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Re: Stigma against video games in modern society

#34  Postby DarthHelmet86 » Aug 15, 2014 8:15 am

Mazille wrote:I should have posted my edits separately. Now it looks like you disagree with my hate-boner for the big players, even though you didn't know I was going to say that when you disagreed.


Well to clear it up I agree fully with your edits. More games need to take risks, to try and not just appeal to the mass market with a paint by numbers game.
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Re: Stigma against video games in modern society

#35  Postby Mazille » Aug 15, 2014 8:18 am

:cheers:
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Re: Stigma against video games in modern society

#36  Postby I'm With Stupid » Aug 15, 2014 9:37 am

Mazille wrote:The esports thing is getting really big everywhere else too, IWS. I'm not sure about adoring female fans, but in the big tournaments those kids can bag prize money that counts in the millions of Dollars or Euros.

Yeah, but who's watching it? Personally, I can't think of anything more boring than watching someone else play a computer game. Even my friends, in the same room. Obviously it depends on the game, but I just don't think it's a good spectator sport. I think part of it is that when you watch proper sports (or even something like a circus), there's an intuitive knowledge of how difficult it is to do some of the things they do. I don't need to have tried gymnastics to be amazed by it. With computer games, I have no idea whether something is impressive or not, without first needing an intimate knowledge of the physics of the game they happen to be playing. Incidentally, this is not the case with physical games like dancing games, etc. I can be just as impressed by someone who's amazing at Dance Dance Revolution (showing my age) as someone who's good at football.

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Re: Stigma against video games in modern society

#37  Postby Mazille » Aug 15, 2014 9:58 am

I'm With Stupid wrote:
Yeah, but who's watching it?

32 million people, in the case of the last League of Legends finale, with 8.5 million of them at the same time.
The year before they had like 8 million total and 1 million at the same time. Next year? Who knows?
Fucktons of people watch the stuff.
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Re: Stigma against video games in modern society

#38  Postby DarthHelmet86 » Aug 15, 2014 10:02 am

If you mean who as in what kind of people? Other gamers, people who know the game or just enjoy watching it being played. I don't play LoL but I can have fun watching a game being commentated. Just like with physical sports I can tell that skill is required, I can see it when I watch and learn about it from commentators.
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Re: Stigma against video games in modern society

#39  Postby Mazille » Aug 15, 2014 10:07 am

Yeah. It's no soccer world championship finale or superbowl (yet), but there's tons of money there already.
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Re: Stigma against video games in modern society

#40  Postby DarthHelmet86 » Aug 15, 2014 10:31 am

There are also gaming marathons that happen each year to earn money for charity. There are the speed running marathons here and Desert Bus For Hope.
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