XBOX reveal. May 21st. 5pm (GMT).

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Re: XBOX reveal. May 21st. 5pm (GMT).

#581  Postby tuco » Mar 02, 2014 5:57 pm

Mazille wrote:http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/7.843611-Microsoft-Kinect-Almost-a-Spy-Tool-for-British-Intelligence-Update

Well. I remember being called paranoid for warning against just that.


I went through the thread up to page 12 with intent to demonstrate that someone on the internet was wrong, in this case you. Then I got bored and lazy.

You called yourself paranoid several times in the first place and that was before anyone called you paranoid. Then I got on page 12 where I wrote:

tuco wrote:
Mazille wrote:You know, what with that NSA prism thing blowing up in the US's face right now, is there still someone who finds my slight paranoia over a surveillance system connected to the tubes all that silly?


While I do not want to be confrontational over this (Xbox), especially as I do not consider myself fanboi of MS business, yes I do. Or rather, the problem is not primarily with Xbox One having Kinect mandatory. We've already touched the issue about talking to robots for example and even you were able to imagine it, just not in your room iirc. So forget about your room, imagine where else similar technology to Kinect could be used.

Interactive robots could be just about everywhere, from hot dog carts to space stations, and in this sense your paranoia should not be slight but quite heavy as each and everyone of them would be online, watching, and we would not be able to turn them off like Kinect. With this new technology, and I mentioned it before, we face new challenges which may require new approaches, thinking out of the box so to say. Privacy, as known to us thousands of years when moral was doing the same whether someone was watching or not and only God could see everyone at all time, became to have different meaning. Phones, cars and dogs have GPS, surveillance cameras are on every corner, paparazzi's, credit card records, the internet where we send information without being able to control them, etc etc.

This is the time we live in and reject it, technology, on the grounds "it can be abused .." is just not good enough. What is needed, in my opinion, is debate or realization of how technology affects us and what is required to do so it can be abused as little as possible. For example, and at least where I live, many concepts from the internet are not properly defined in laws simply because they are new (like internet web page). So this is where your slight paranoia has its place. If it triggers debate its fine, but if it triggers irrational fears leading to radical solutions .. I dunno. Now, I was not trying to diagnose your state of mind, just put the whole Stasi thing into a perspective.

BTW Kinect is not silly peripheral. The tech is pretty cool, applications may vary however. The idea is that developers can be certain that when they implement voice/gesture features to their products they will be used. ME3 gameplay where voice commands replaced the power wheel, for example, seemed much smoother with Kinect than without. Liara? Blow .. Warp Warp!


1) There is no evidence that NSA, MS or any other influential agency/institution/corporation hacking XBOX One Kinect nor using data gathered through it illegally.
2) The possibility of being hacked was always there, this is obvious and trivial, and nobody was denying it.
3) Anyone can go back through the thread and, in retrospect, evaluate her/his statements. I still maintain that some of them were hysterical.
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Re: XBOX reveal. May 21st. 5pm (GMT).

#582  Postby willhud9 » Mar 03, 2014 2:02 am

There was also no "evidence" that the NSA was spying on millions of Americans through Verizon. Until Snowden revealed it.

Just because there is no evidence does not mean the government intelligence agencies are not abusing their clearance in using this. So you can see why such an argument means nothing.

Furthermore it is not hacking if the NSA uses the data from Microsoft's kinect to survey it's citizens. Through the many laws granted to the NSA and I assume the GCHQ they can have access to the data easily.
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Re: XBOX reveal. May 21st. 5pm (GMT).

#583  Postby tuco » Mar 04, 2014 2:14 am

That is what I was saying. There is no problem with Kinect, there is problem with National Security Agency spying on people.
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Re: XBOX reveal. May 21st. 5pm (GMT).

#584  Postby DarthHelmet86 » Mar 04, 2014 2:21 am

willhud9 wrote:There was also no "evidence" that the NSA was spying on millions of Americans through Verizon. Until Snowden revealed it.

Just because there is no evidence does not mean the government intelligence agencies are not abusing their clearance in using this. So you can see why such an argument means nothing.

Furthermore it is not hacking if the NSA uses the data from Microsoft's kinect to survey it's citizens. Through the many laws granted to the NSA and I assume the GCHQ they can have access to the data easily.


The same could be said for any screen with an inbuilt webcam, laptop with inbuilt webcam, the PS4 camera and SmartTVs that use a webcam. Also I doubt the NSA has any laws that say it can hack into my modem to pull that data out of my console, for one I don't live in America.
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Re: XBOX reveal. May 21st. 5pm (GMT).

#585  Postby Animavore » Mar 08, 2014 7:29 pm

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Re: XBOX reveal. May 21st. 5pm (GMT).

#586  Postby Mazille » Mar 08, 2014 8:53 pm

DarthHelmet86 wrote: Also I doubt the NSA has any laws that say it can hack into my modem to pull that data out of my console, for one I don't live in America.

And as we've known for months now, the legal status of their surveillance totally keeps them in check.
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Re: XBOX reveal. May 21st. 5pm (GMT).

#587  Postby tuco » Mar 09, 2014 6:22 am

Animavore wrote:What do yous think about this?
http://www.gamespot.com/articles/micros ... 0-6418181/


I think that I will try to avoid anything so aggressively advertised to me.
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Re: XBOX reveal. May 21st. 5pm (GMT).

#588  Postby tuco » Mar 26, 2014 11:18 am

Microsoft on loaning and gifting digital Xbox One games -- "We totally believe in that future"

[snip]

"On the digital space, and the things that we've talked about, what that opens up...like we understand what games you own and who you are and how you move around and who you might want to loan rights to your games or gift your games to," Spencer said. "We totally believe in that future. And any other marketplace you play in, these kind of mechanisms are out there."

[snip]

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/micros ... 0-6418534/
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Re: XBOX reveal. May 21st. 5pm (GMT).

#589  Postby tuco » Jul 30, 2014 10:28 am

Announcing EA Access for Xbox One: The Best Way to Play EA’s Games

[snip]

We have partnered with Microsoft to deliver EA Access, an all-new monthly (or annual) membership for gamers exclusively on Xbox One that starts at just $4.99 a month. The service is being rolled out in beta to a limited number of players today, but it will launch for everyone on Xbox One soon. At EA, we are always looking for new ways to make it easier for gamers to play more EA games across all platforms, and we are excited about what EA Access will offer to players on Xbox One.

EA Access membership unlocks The Vault, a collection of EA’s biggest games on Xbox One ready for you to download and play. During the beta, gamers will have unlimited access to four great EA games: FIFA 14, Madden NFL 25, Peggle 2 and Battlefield 4™, with more titles being added soon. That’s over $100 worth of games for $4.99 a month. You can play these EA favorites as much as you want with the click of a button.


[snip]

http://www.ea.com/news/ea-announces-ea- ... n-xbox-one
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Re: XBOX reveal. May 21st. 5pm (GMT).

#590  Postby scott1328 » Aug 02, 2014 5:07 am

So in addition to Xbox live, you have to pay an additional subscription fee...
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Re: XBOX reveal. May 21st. 5pm (GMT).

#591  Postby purplerat » Aug 02, 2014 5:36 am

You dont have to pay for it. Its not a required service.
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Re: XBOX reveal. May 21st. 5pm (GMT).

#592  Postby scott1328 » Aug 02, 2014 5:40 am

Not until you want an EA game, that is.
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Re: XBOX reveal. May 21st. 5pm (GMT).

#593  Postby purplerat » Aug 02, 2014 6:06 am

No you can still buy them the normal way. But 29/year is a steal for what you would be getting
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Re: XBOX reveal. May 21st. 5pm (GMT).

#594  Postby scott1328 » Aug 02, 2014 6:19 am

We'll see. There will no doubt be exclusive games and content. And since this is a subscriber model, you lose your games and content if you unsubscribe.
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Re: XBOX reveal. May 21st. 5pm (GMT).

#595  Postby purplerat » Aug 04, 2014 9:38 pm

scott1328 wrote:We'll see. There will no doubt be exclusive games and content. And since this is a subscriber model, you lose your games and content if you unsubscribe.

Yeah, that's how subscription services work. So what? You either subscribe to it or you don't. It's not like they are making it a requirement for the XBox as a whole or for any existing EA games you've already bought.

For the cost I'd be buying it if I had an XBox One. I can't wait for Sony's steaming game service.
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Re: XBOX reveal. May 21st. 5pm (GMT).

#596  Postby tuco » Aug 05, 2014 2:31 am

Digital distribution if far from developed. The pre-launch marketing statements and subsequent reactions about Microsoft digital trading scheme are already in annals. Whether EA deal is a good deal depends on what kind of content will be offered but in general any competition in this field could prove to be beneficial to consumers. Besides, the only way to fight piracy are good deals. Sony service is coming online soon, very cool, though I've heard beta had beta pricing. Who knows if Sony won't introduce EA package later. Golden age of gaming ;)
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Re: XBOX reveal. May 21st. 5pm (GMT).

#597  Postby DarthHelmet86 » Aug 05, 2014 2:36 am

It is pretty clear to me why Sony doesn't want the EA thing on their system...it is direct competition with their service. Just like you wont see Steam or Origin being on the consoles as a separate way to buy games. Would I buy EAs sub, hell fucking no. If I was into the sports games? Yes and I would love it.
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Re: XBOX reveal. May 21st. 5pm (GMT).

#598  Postby purplerat » Aug 05, 2014 5:37 am

I'm into sports games and I think the absolute best thing for sports games would be if they went to a complete subscription model not too unlike MMOs. While many would balk at that idea at first one of the most hated aspects of sports gaming is the yearly release cycle. It sucks because while the games are under constant development we only get these fragmented releases once per year and near zero compatibility between one release to the next. Plus the desire to get as much done on the next version leaves no room for fixing or updating current titles. A subscription model could alleviate all that but I doubt it's going to happen anytime soon.
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Re: XBOX reveal. May 21st. 5pm (GMT).

#599  Postby DarthHelmet86 » Aug 05, 2014 5:46 am

It is a good idea, but I think part of the desire in the sports games is for there to be large leaps forwards in the graphics, even new engines ever couple of years. I don't think a sub/mmo version could really deliver on that, or it might be able to but people would have to be willing to have large downloads to allow such large changes.

I think this sub model is getting hate not because of it being what it is but because it is EA the most evil of all companies ever. I get why EA cops some of its hate but a lot of it is too over the top to me or doesn't get carried over to other companies doing the same thing. Ubisoft is right at the forefront of evil douchiness but they often get away with it and EA cops it when they do the same thing.
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Re: XBOX reveal. May 21st. 5pm (GMT).

#600  Postby purplerat » Aug 05, 2014 6:23 am

I don't see why they couldn't push out new or update engines every couple of years or so with a subscription model. I don't think download sizes are really a concern going forward. It's not like it's really any better on a disc with the new generations. NBA 2K had almost a 50gb install and required a huge download out of the box as it was anyways. Other games are smaller but still several gigs. At least when it's a straight download I still have my disc drive available in case I want to use that while the game is installing.

With the current release cycle the new engines are more times than not disappointing because it's not really feasible to fully develop a complete new engine in a few months. It takes a couple of years or more but publishers aren't going to give up the huge profits of yearly releases to wait for a fully developed engine so what we get is fragmented releases where you get part of a new engine one year, then a bit more the next and so on until you finally have more or less the finished product but then it's already antiquated and needs to be replace. A sub model would allow developers to have longer development cycles while still raking in the money year in and year, offering smaller patches and updates along the way to keep people playing and paying. MMOs do something similar except it's expansion packs and new content that's the focus instead of new engines and features. But sports game developers don't need to create new content or expand their games much since the real world sports they are modeled after does that for them. Instead they can focus on graphical and feature improvements.

The resistance is going to be from people not being able to give up the idea that they are buying the content and owning it themselves. Something that was never really the case in the first place but even more so today is not true. Going forward though people are going to realize that it's as much about how content is being delivered as it is about the content itself. Gaming and entertainment in general is not an investment. So rather than worrying about what you "own" in terms of games it should be about how much entertainment you are getting for your dollar. If a subscription service offers you more entertainment per dollar spent than buying individual copies of games I can't understand why anybody would object to that just because they don't end up with a piece of plastic that they can hold up and say "mine".
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