UK General Election 2015

[Scot Dutchy]

Please Ron the libdems are fucked.

[Beatsong]

As a previous Labour leader might have put it

If David Cameron wins on 7th May, I warn you not to be ordinary. I warn you not to be young. I warn you not to fall ill. I warn you not to get old.

Three out of four, yes.

Getting old is actually OK, as they've shown they're totally committed to protecting pensions. For some reason the idea of cutting unemployment benefits and disabled benefits to the bone - because the lazy scroungers should have saved for their own upkeep and have no right to expect it from others - doesn't apply to the old, who should not feel any compunction whatsoever about expecting the state to compensate for their lack of forward planning.

I'm sure this has nothing whatsoever to do with the fact that most old people vote Conservative.

[Beatsong]

In other election news: Brilliant torydem spin on the implications of their economic failure.

"It looks like we haven't actually built a strong economy after all. That's why you mustn't vote Labour: because they'll put the strong economy we haven't built at risk".

[ronmcd]

Please Ron the libdems are fucked.

Didn't say they weren't. They deserve it.

[Scot Dutchy]

In other election news: Brilliant torydem spin on the implications of their economic failure.

"It looks like we haven't actually built a strong economy after all. That's why you mustn't vote Labour: because they'll put the strong economy we haven't built at risk".

Missed it by a week. Artificial growth. Cant be bothered now.

[mrjonno]

If a family moves permanently to Scotland (as opposed to the student choosing a Scottish university when they are resident in England) then they will be Scottish resident, and the Scottish education system and laws will apply.

No federal system in the world would allow that discrimination.

If you move to Texas you become legally Texan even if you spent the rest of your life in another state. Therefore in a federal system even I temporary rented a house for 1 week in Edinburgh I would become Scottish for that week.

Federalism can only work if there is a close cultural/political links between different parts of the federal union (something the US is struggling with). I'm not talking about whether weed is legal one side of the border or not but free uni fees on one side of the border and them being £27000 to £50k in the other is obviously not viable.

Or to put it another way a permanent Labour or SNP government one side of the border and a Conservative one South of the border would be a joke for keeping a nation together (which is something you obvious don't want)

Sorry but 90% of the population forcing politics the other 10% don't want but allowing the 10% to be part of something bigger does work. Scotland will never get the left wing government it wants but it decided in a referendum that was a price worth paying to be part of the UK

[ronmcd]

If a family moves permanently to Scotland (as opposed to the student choosing a Scottish university when they are resident in England) then they will be Scottish resident, and the Scottish education system and laws will apply.

No federal system in the world would allow that discrimination.

We're not in a federal system currently.

The problem with "free tuition" (not free, really an argument over whether students or general taxation pays for it) is actually one that exists in all EU countries, that is the same rules have to apply across member states. If Scotland were independent, the fees couldnt be charged at English rates to students from England, but we arent, so we can. But other countries do the same thing using different methods, so it happens.

The problem you seem to be missing with tuition fees is this - it was the English education system that brought them in. Want to fix it? Do it, please.

edit - this is one of those issues around devolution that is a mess. When the English education system was changed to move the funding OUT of central taxation into the students responsibility, the funding was cut, and so the funding to Scotland for education was cut. But we didnt want to cut education funding for universities. So the money is pulled from elsewhere, and the students from other parts of UK need to pay the same as they pay in England, with the side effect of preventing Scottish universities not having enough places for Scottish students due to people from rest of UK trying to avoid WESTMINSTERS tuition fees.

[chairman bill]

Germany has no HE tuition fees, so I fail to see why they're needed anywhere in the UK

[ronmcd]

Germany has no HE tuition fees, so I fail to see why they're needed anywhere in the UK

They're not. It was and it is ideological.

Getting on my high horse for a second, the thing that disturbs me most about post 97 UK is how first Blair and now all the Westminster parties have managed to convince the British voter that we can't afford to do *anything* any more (except trident, it seems). Universalism is dead, everything should be means tested, even if means testing removes much of the savings, education is not to be free, hospitals and schools need to "compete" ... what the fuck happened? And why are Labour not arguing against it? Do they not actually believe in these things now?

I don't think so. (edit - they still profess to in Scotland, but their party does something different at WM ... awkward)

I would urge everyone with a left of centre bone in their body to read this recent essay by a journalist who works for STV in Glasgow. He's fairly well known in Scottish politics, probably not to those in other parts of UK. I don't agree with all of it, but it does I think chime with most people who were, or had families who were, "old" Labour.

For Granddad, ‘socialism’ was just a ten-bob word for common decency.

http://news.stv.tv/scotland-decides/ana ... -politics/

[mrjonno]

The big problem with tuition fees is whether they exist or not (that's an issue but not a constitutional one) but the fact that one part of country can change people from a different part completely different amounts.

If Scotland was independent within the EU it would have to charge Belgium,the Dutch the English anyone in the EU exactly the same as Scottish students which is currently nothing. I've looked at Dutch post grad fee's and they have to treat me exactly as a Dutch citizen if I went to study there. They can discriminate on my intelligence but not my nationality

[ronmcd]

The big problem with tuition fees is whether they exist or not (that's an issue but not a constitutional one) but the fact that one part of country can change people from a different part completely different amounts.

If Scotland was independent within the EU it would have to charge Belgium,the Dutch the English anyone in the EU exactly the same as Scottish students which is currently nothing. I've looked at Dutch post grad fee's and they have to treat me exactly as a Dutch citizen if I went to study there. They can discriminate on my intelligence but not my nationality

True, although some other EU countries simply find ways to support their own students outwith their tuition fees regimes, which is what the Scottish govt proposed in the event of independence so that Scottish universities didn't end up attracting too many students from other parts of UK.

The reason it happens is because there is nothing in EU law about how fees are charged within a state, but students from other states have to be treated the same. But again - fix tuition fees in England and there wont be a problem. It's a terrible policy.

[chairman bill]

For Granddad, ‘socialism’ was just a ten-bob word for common decency.

Pretty much. Equality & fairness. Not words that much bother the Tories nor it seems the LibDems. Also not something that bothered New <hawk, spit> Labour much either, though it did much more to alleviate poverty than most, whether through cancelling African debt (Brown, not Bliar) or bringing so many kids out of poverty. But equality & fairness is all it's about really. Overcoming the Thatcherite individualism & lack of care for society, is still an on-going process though, and one I see Ed Miliband continuing apace.

[mrjonno]

Very easy to preach fairness and equality if your life is unfair and you are at the bottom, lot harder to preach it if you are reasonable well off.

There are million of people whose life isn't so good but 10's of million who are ok. The poor really became screwed when they became a minority

[ronmcd]

For Granddad, ‘socialism’ was just a ten-bob word for common decency.

Pretty much. Equality & fairness. Not words that much bother the Tories nor it seems the LibDems. Also not something that bothered New <hawk, spit> Labour much either, though it did much more to alleviate poverty than most, whether through cancelling African debt (Brown, not Bliar) or bringing so many kids out of poverty. But equality & fairness is all it's about really. Overcoming the Thatcherite individualism & lack of care for society, is still an on-going process though, and one I see Ed Miliband continuing apace.

My overwhelming feeling towards Brown isn't actually anger or ill-feeling, although they sometimes emerge when his apparent hatred of SNP pushes him into outright lies*. But mostly I just feel sad over Gordon Brown, someone who certainly did believe the same things as the people who came before him, but got lost somewhere in government. He DID do some good things, and he did things I believe for the right reasons, and I got the impression (wishful thinking perhaps) that he tempered Blair's policies as much as possible.

But I'm just disappointed in him.

As for Blair, well ...

*Brown lies - he told pensioners they would lose their pensions if we voted yes, which is a lie, and he claimed organ recipients in Scotland wouldn't get access to organs because SNP wanted to break all ties. The organ transplant service had to issue a statement pointing out this was bollocks as the different NHS services are independent, and the existing arrangements which include Republic of Ireland would absolutely continue unchanged. Brown makes me sad.

[ronmcd]

Very easy to preach fairness and equality if your life is unfair and you are at the bottom, lot harder to preach it if you are reasonable well off.

There are million of people whose life isn't so good but 10's of million who are ok. The poor really became screwed when they became a minority

What the fuck.

That's the reason rich individuals (or any individual) dont get to set policy, and instead it should be for the good of the people of the country.

[ronmcd]

For Granddad, ‘socialism’ was just a ten-bob word for common decency.

Pretty much. Equality & fairness. Not words that much bother the Tories nor it seems the LibDems. Also not something that bothered New <hawk, spit> Labour much either, though it did much more to alleviate poverty than most, whether through cancelling African debt (Brown, not Bliar) or bringing so many kids out of poverty. But equality & fairness is all it's about really. Overcoming the Thatcherite individualism & lack of care for society, is still an on-going process though, and one I see Ed Miliband continuing apace.

To be fair, the more I see Miliband the more I suspect he might - just might - be a damn fine PM. Just between you and me, don't tell anyone I said that.

[fisherman]

Thing is though he is just polling 10 seats more than GB got in 2010 - against a cutting coalition!
Has he been late in getting his message out there?

[ronmcd]

Here's a funny thing. The Telegraph has a wee app to help people vote tactically for any constituency, you enter your postcode and who you want NOT to win. Fair and honest, naturally. Isn't it?

The code is hardcoded so that every single seat in Scotland returns "Anyone but SNP". It also oddly suggests voting Labour in one English seat where Labour have no chance, a seat where it's Tory or Libdems. I wonder why ... no ... surely not ...

http://wingsoverscotland.com/a-recurring-theme/

[OlivierK]

I would urge everyone with a left of centre bone in their body to read this recent essay by a journalist who works for STV in Glasgow. He's fairly well known in Scottish politics, probably not to those in other parts of UK. I don't agree with all of it, but it does I think chime with most people who were, or had families who were, "old" Labour.

For Granddad, ‘socialism’ was just a ten-bob word for common decency.

http://news.stv.tv/scotland-decides/ana ... -politics/

A very fine article

We have the same issue here with Australian Labor deserting its socialist roots, and people of the left agonising over throwing their lot (and their vote) in with the Australian Greens, who both keep a more authentic leftist spirit alive, and have their own baggage - not nationalist, but somewhat problematic in other ways.

[Emmeline]

Russell Brand has 9.5 million followers on twitter - Ed Miliband was absolutely right to agree to this interview.