One bang one process.

Discussions on astrology, homeopathy and superstition etc.

Moderators: kiore, The_Metatron, Blip

User avatar
Spearthrower
Posts: 33888
Joined: Feb 25, 2010 6:11 pm
Country: Thailand
Location: กรุงเทพมหานคร

Re: Mathematics a universal language.

Post by Spearthrower »

[quote="pfrankinstein";p="2776453"]Colours a universal language also?[/quote]

Not so, obviously, as colours are perceived qualities, not objective quantities. Many animals see different colours to us, and how exactly can we be sure that the colour we both see is perceived the same way? If I see blue as green, but learn the word 'blue' in reference to it and thus always refer to it as blue despite actually seeing green - how would I, you or anyone know? Thus, a universal language it cannot be.


[quote="pfrankinstein";p="2776453"]Such a conceptual order of colour needs structure.[/quote]

Why? You might want to impose structure on the universe, but that doesn't indicate that such structure has any relevance, reason or value.


[quote="pfrankinstein";p="2776453"]So we look to the most basic premise, based on best scientific evidence the big bang happened. We know because we see evidence, echoes via Red shift.
So in the universal understanding of colour.
I propose red to be the first.[/quote]

My suggestion is for you to understand the concept of frames of reference. Red shift is meaningless without understanding this, and understanding this makes contending that red is 'the first colour' (whatever value that's supposed to impute) untenable.
I'm not an atheist; I just don't believe in gods :- that which I don't belong to isn't a group!
Religion: Mass Stockholm Syndrome

Learn Stuff. Stuff good. https://www.coursera.org/
pfrankinstein
Posts: 1814
Joined: Mar 27, 2011 12:42 am
Name: paul
Country: UK

Re: Mathematics a universal language.

Post by pfrankinstein »

I'm looking from the human Darwinian perspective.
What use is knowing an intelligent visual coloured sequence.
User avatar
The_Metatron
Moderator
Posts: 22599
Joined: Feb 28, 2010 8:32 pm
Name: Jesse
Country: United States
Location: Lewis County, New York

Re: Mathematics a universal language.

Post by The_Metatron »

EM radiation has wavelengths we can measure and quantify. We know what frequency of light we call red is. The trouble is, to call that universal, we'd have to know how everything perceives that particular wavelength.

I think you've projected your idea of color to everyone and everything else.
pfrankinstein
Posts: 1814
Joined: Mar 27, 2011 12:42 am
Name: paul
Country: UK

Re: Mathematics a universal language.

Post by pfrankinstein »

Yes.
Without a baseline, a start point everything can be seen as a kaleidoscope that makes no sense.
What type of perspective could be used for the baseline. A train of thought.
Really want to get the colours into a reasoned scientific grounded logical order.



.
User avatar
Cito di Pense
Posts: 30840
Joined: Feb 26, 2010 5:29 pm
Name: Amir Bagatelle
Country: Nutbush City Limits

Re: Mathematics a universal language.

Post by Cito di Pense »

[quote="pfrankinstein";p="2776461"]Yes.
Without a baseline, a start point everything can be seen as a kaleidoscope that makes no sense.
What type of perspective could be used for the baseline. A train of thought.
Really want to get the colours into a reasoned scientific grounded logical order.



.[/quote]

You're a few years too late. The eminent color scientist, Roy G. Biv (deceased) put color order on a firm footing long before you were born. His initials are immortalized in the RGB color scheme currently used in computer graphics. Others have come along since then, such as Chu-Ming Yong-Kim (CMYK) and Herbert Stanton Brown (HSB). You can look it up.
Хлопнут без некролога. -- Серге́й Па́влович Королёв

Translation by Elbert Hubbard: Do not take life too seriously. You're not going to get out of it alive.
User avatar
Spearthrower
Posts: 33888
Joined: Feb 25, 2010 6:11 pm
Country: Thailand
Location: กรุงเทพมหานคร

Re: Mathematics a universal language.

Post by Spearthrower »

Don't forget the pioneering work of Peggy Lee.
I'm not an atheist; I just don't believe in gods :- that which I don't belong to isn't a group!
Religion: Mass Stockholm Syndrome

Learn Stuff. Stuff good. https://www.coursera.org/
hackenslash
Posts: 22910
Joined: Feb 25, 2010 2:26 pm
Name: The Other Sweary One
Country: Republic of Mancunia
Location: That niggling voice telling you you might be wrong...
Contact:

Re: Mathematics a universal language.

Post by hackenslash »

[quote="Cito di Pense";p="2776462"][quote="pfrankinstein";p="2776461"]Yes.
Without a baseline, a start point everything can be seen as a kaleidoscope that makes no sense.
What type of perspective could be used for the baseline. A train of thought.
Really want to get the colours into a reasoned scientific grounded logical order.



.[/quote]

You're a few years too late. The eminent color scientist, Roy G. Biv (deceased) put color order on a firm footing long before you were born. His initials are immortalized in the RGB color scheme currently used in computer graphics. Others have come along since then, such as Chu-Ming Yong-Kim (CMYK) and Herbert Stanton Brown (HSB). You can look it up.[/quote]

And that's just for colour on macroscopic scales. Wait till he hears about Quantum Chromodynamics...
User avatar
Cito di Pense
Posts: 30840
Joined: Feb 26, 2010 5:29 pm
Name: Amir Bagatelle
Country: Nutbush City Limits

Re: Mathematics a universal language.

Post by Cito di Pense »

[quote="hackenslash";p="2776501"][quote="Cito di Pense";p="2776462"][quote="pfrankinstein";p="2776461"]Yes.
Without a baseline, a start point everything can be seen as a kaleidoscope that makes no sense.
What type of perspective could be used for the baseline. A train of thought.
Really want to get the colours into a reasoned scientific grounded logical order.



.[/quote]

You're a few years too late. The eminent color scientist, Roy G. Biv (deceased) put color order on a firm footing long before you were born. His initials are immortalized in the RGB color scheme currently used in computer graphics. Others have come along since then, such as Chu-Ming Yong-Kim (CMYK) and Herbert Stanton Brown (HSB). You can look it up.[/quote]

And that's just for colour on macroscopic scales. Wait till he hears about Quantum Chromodynamics...[/quote]

I dunno. If we stick with Spearthrower's citation of Peggy Lee, maybe we can work that into Perry Comodynamics.
Хлопнут без некролога. -- Серге́й Па́влович Королёв

Translation by Elbert Hubbard: Do not take life too seriously. You're not going to get out of it alive.
User avatar
newolder
Posts: 7877
Joined: Feb 25, 2010 1:13 pm
Name: Albert Ross
Country: Feudal Estate number 9
Location: Horwich, UK
Contact:

Re: Mathematics a universal language.

Post by newolder »

[quote="pfrankinstein";p="2776453"]Colours a universal language also?
...
I propose red to be the first.[/quote]

Electromagnetic radiation also carries polarisation information and the guys in the Dept. of Mantiss Shrimps want to know what you are going to do about that?
Mantis shrimps, scientifically known as stomatopods, have compound eyes, a bit like a bee or a fly, made up of 10,000 small photoreceptive units. ... Additionally, a large portion of photoreceptors in the mantis shrimp's eye are used for visualising the UV and polarisation information in objects and scenes underwater.
I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein’s brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops. - Stephen J. Gould
hackenslash
Posts: 22910
Joined: Feb 25, 2010 2:26 pm
Name: The Other Sweary One
Country: Republic of Mancunia
Location: That niggling voice telling you you might be wrong...
Contact:

Re: Mathematics a universal language.

Post by hackenslash »

I can't hear Perry Como's name without going straight to this:

hackenslash
Posts: 22910
Joined: Feb 25, 2010 2:26 pm
Name: The Other Sweary One
Country: Republic of Mancunia
Location: That niggling voice telling you you might be wrong...
Contact:

Re: Mathematics a universal language.

Post by hackenslash »

[quote="newolder";p="2776508"][quote="pfrankinstein";p="2776453"]Colours a universal language also?
...
I propose red to be the first.[/quote]

Electromagnetic radiation also carries polarisation information and the guys in the Dept. of Mantiss Shrimps want to know what you are going to do about that?[/quote]

And, of course, we've learned that when anything's polarised, it's probably being filtered by shit...

Poles Apart
User avatar
newolder
Posts: 7877
Joined: Feb 25, 2010 1:13 pm
Name: Albert Ross
Country: Feudal Estate number 9
Location: Horwich, UK
Contact:

Re: Mathematics a universal language.

Post by newolder »

^ "Your theory sparkles like shit in the eyes of a shrimp", reads like a future Blackadder putdown. :think:
I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein’s brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops. - Stephen J. Gould
hackenslash
Posts: 22910
Joined: Feb 25, 2010 2:26 pm
Name: The Other Sweary One
Country: Republic of Mancunia
Location: That niggling voice telling you you might be wrong...
Contact:

Re: Mathematics a universal language.

Post by hackenslash »

:grin:
User avatar
Cito di Pense
Posts: 30840
Joined: Feb 26, 2010 5:29 pm
Name: Amir Bagatelle
Country: Nutbush City Limits

Re: Mathematics a universal language.

Post by Cito di Pense »

I knew it, I knew it, I knew it. After that Red Dwarf excerpt, a duck-swinging contest was inevitable.
Хлопнут без некролога. -- Серге́й Па́влович Королёв

Translation by Elbert Hubbard: Do not take life too seriously. You're not going to get out of it alive.
hackenslash
Posts: 22910
Joined: Feb 25, 2010 2:26 pm
Name: The Other Sweary One
Country: Republic of Mancunia
Location: That niggling voice telling you you might be wrong...
Contact:

Re: Mathematics a universal language.

Post by hackenslash »

Bombay duck..?

Image
User avatar
Cito di Pense
Posts: 30840
Joined: Feb 26, 2010 5:29 pm
Name: Amir Bagatelle
Country: Nutbush City Limits

Re: Mathematics a universal language.

Post by Cito di Pense »

Officially!

But the ducks being swung might be quantum ducks. Quark! Quark!
Хлопнут без некролога. -- Серге́й Па́влович Королёв

Translation by Elbert Hubbard: Do not take life too seriously. You're not going to get out of it alive.
hackenslash
Posts: 22910
Joined: Feb 25, 2010 2:26 pm
Name: The Other Sweary One
Country: Republic of Mancunia
Location: That niggling voice telling you you might be wrong...
Contact:

Re: Mathematics a universal language.

Post by hackenslash »

You've heard the one about the Grand Old quantum duck of York and his ten thousand quarks...

And when they were up they were up
And when they were down they were down
And when they were only halfway up they were simultaneously up and down
pfrankinstein
Posts: 1814
Joined: Mar 27, 2011 12:42 am
Name: paul
Country: UK

Re: Mathematics a universal language.

Post by pfrankinstein »

Brains the size of busses some on here.

Cheese I love cheese me "if a picture paints a thousand words, if an artist picks up a brush.
With the three primary colours how many words? Go figure.
User avatar
Hermit
Posts: 4927
Joined: Mar 03, 2010 2:00 am
Name: Cantankerous grump
Location: Ignore list

Re: Mathematics a universal language.

Post by Hermit »

[quote="pfrankinstein";p="2776461"]Yes.
Without a baseline, a start point everything can be seen as a kaleidoscope that makes no sense.
What type of perspective could be used for the baseline. A train of thought.
Really want to get the colours into a reasoned scientific grounded logical order.



.[/quote]
Wavelength and frequency might just serve as a baseline. To add context we could insert visible colours into the electromagnetic spectrum. Somewhere between infrared and ultraviolet might be a suitable location. It's a novel idea, I know, but worth a try.
God is the mysterious veil under which we hide our ignorance of the cause. - Léo Errera


God created the universe
God just exists
User avatar
Spearthrower
Posts: 33888
Joined: Feb 25, 2010 6:11 pm
Country: Thailand
Location: กรุงเทพมหานคร

Re: Mathematics a universal language.

Post by Spearthrower »

[quote="pfrankinstein";p="2777137"]
With the three primary colours how many words? Go figure.[/quote]

Three.
I'm not an atheist; I just don't believe in gods :- that which I don't belong to isn't a group!
Religion: Mass Stockholm Syndrome

Learn Stuff. Stuff good. https://www.coursera.org/
Locked