Polish

[Arjan Dirkse]

Any Polish speakers here?

I speak Czech and I decided to start learning Polish, shouldn't be too hard when already speaking one Slavic language. There's quite a few Polish speakers around these days in the Netherlands, so maybe I could put it to good use translating stuff.

[Animavore]

The only Polish I know, but don't know how to spell, is a tongue twister which means something like, "the table is wobbly". Polish people are often surprised at how easily I can say it, but it's not a tongue twister to me at all. I once wondered, somewhere on this very forum, if when you are born into a language does the structure of the language somehow trap you within it such that certain configurations of words cause a brain burp which may not affect those caught in other language structures (I hope I'm expressing that well).

[Scot Dutchy]

Ani.

Are you asking how much one language can cause problems when thinking and speaking another language?

[Animavore]

[quote="Scot Dutchy";p="2340246"]Ani.

Are you asking how much one language can cause problems when thinking and speaking another language?[/quote]
No. Nearly the opposite. I'm asking about how speaking a language may cause you to have difficulty with certain phrases (tongue twisters) within that language that someone who speaks another language may not have any trouble saying.

[Scot Dutchy]

Sorry I misunderstood.

Never experienced that. I can say Dutch tongue twisters as good as any Dutchman. The Dutch 'g' gives many non-Dutch many problems as does the 'r'.

[Arjan Dirkse]

[quote="Animavore";p="2340236"]The only Polish I know, but don't know how to spell, is a tongue twister which means something like, "the table is wobbly". Polish people are often surprised at how easily I can say it, but it's not a tongue twister to me at all. I once wondered, somewhere on this very forum, if when you are born into a language does the structure of the language somehow trap you within it such that certain configurations of words cause a brain burp which may not affect those caught in other language structures (I hope I'm expressing that well).[/quote]

Czechs have something similar, many have this kind of inferiority (or superiority?) complex about their own language which makes them think nobody who is not Czech can speak any Czech, simply because it's too difficult for foreigners and it's too obscure a language for anyone to bother with.

[Scot Dutchy]

Like Dutch.

[Animavore]

It's not as bad as Irish. Even Irish people can't be bothered with it.

[Scot Dutchy]

[quote="Animavore";p="2340431"]It's not as bad as Irish. Even Irish people can't be bothered with it.[/quote]

Seems to be going on ok.

http://www.oideasgael.ie/en/

Who attends the Gaelscoi then?

[Saim]

I know Polish and have been living in Poland since September. I'm here on exchange, leaving in late June.

[quote="Arjan Dirkse";p="2340410"]Czechs have something similar, many have this kind of inferiority (or superiority?) complex about their own language which makes them think nobody who is not Czech can speak any Czech, simply because it's too difficult for foreigners and it's too obscure a language for anyone to bother with. [/quote]

I'm relatively dark-skinned (Punjabi father, Serbian mother) and here in Poland people speak to me in English a lot even though I'm in a C1 course at the moment. When I tell them (in Polish obviously) that Polish is actually an easy language for me (because I speak Serbian with my mother), most of them just say I'm a genius or a weird exception.

I used to get into long explanations about why Polish isn't impossible even for non-Slavs but I get this Polish is really complicated rap so often that my responses have degraded to this:

Pole: Polish is a really hard language, isn't it?
Me: No, it's easy.
Pole: Oh... wow...

My flatmate is a much lighter-than-average Catalan (his look is more typical of Northern/Central Europe) and also knows Polish, and despite the fact that his intonation isn't Polish at all (although he pronounces all the consonants quite well, which is relatively difficult even for many Slavs) he often comes accross Polish people who don't believe he isn't Polish. When he says he's not Polish they say, "oh but you must have Polish family, right? Right?".
[quote="Animavore";p="2340236"]The only Polish I know, but don't know how to spell, is a tongue twister which means something like, "the table is wobbly".[/quote]

Stół z powyłamywanymi nogami. Stół z powyłamywanymi nogami. Stół z powyłamywanymi nogami.
Stół z powyłamywanymi nogami. Stół z powyłamywanymi nogami. Stół z powyłamywanymi nogami.
Stółzpowłamynmynogami.
Stółpowłanogami.

God, Polish people are obsessed with tonguetwisters.

[tuco]

Since we are up .. well, if you speak Czech Polish is, after Slovak, probably the easiest language to handle. Czechs near border with Poland understand, and some speak, Polish readily (watch Polish TV for example).

From business point of view I'd guess that Russian has more opportunities and future than Polish tho. It depends on specifics but in general its simple matter of turnover. It would be harder to learn than Polish but basically in the same difficulty group.

http://www.effectivelanguagelearning.co ... difficulty

[Saim]

[quote="tuco";p="2408739"]Since we are up .. well, if you speak Czech Polish is, after Slovak, probably the easiest language to handle. Czechs near border with Poland understand, and some speak, Polish readily (watch Polish TV for example). [/quote]

Yeah, I remember a year ago when I was in the Czech Republic and Slovakia I was fluent in Serbian and had upper-intermediate knowledge of Polish and I had no trouble understanding people.

More recently I did a long Poland-Bosnia bus trip, passing through the Moravia and Slovakia. I remember I would by Czech and Slovak magazines at the gas stations and would go through it just as quickly as I would Polish magazines, with very little I didn't understand.

From business point of view I'd guess that Russian has more opportunities and future than Polish tho.

It really depends. Poland is a growing economy and few foreigners know the language, so the market isn't as saturated as with Russian. I'd say it's always good to have varied skills.

In my case though it doesn't matter because I'm a linguistics student and learn languages for the hell of it. I already know some Russian and I'm confident if I were motivated to learn it I could get to B1 level after a couple of months, and if I lived in a Russian-speaking country I'd pick it up even faster. The same is true of any Slavic language. The only problem when you're a language lover is to not get bored by how similar everything is.

[tuco]

Well, you are obviously exceptional with languages and so is your point of view on this.

There was a debate whether, or rather how well, Slaves would understand each other 600 years ago. And now I forgot the point .. ;) Lets go back couple of decades then. When Czechs and Slovaks were living in one country (prior to 1991) both languages were used in media thus perhaps everyone understood almost everything. Those born after the split, today's kids and young people, often do not understand many Slovak words, Czech respectively, despite similarities between the two languages. Over one generation language proficiency dropped dramatically just because people did not get to hear the other language.

Indeed, it depends. Poland is no small economy (40mil? pop).

[Briton]

[quote="Scot Dutchy";p="2340418"]Like Dutch. [/quote]

I know you can't answer this until you are released from your cell but I was surprised that Dutch is considered the easiest language for an English speaker to learn. At least that was what a Youtube video on the subject claimed.

[don't get me started]

[quote="Saim";p="2406500"]I know Polish and have been living in Poland since September. I'm here on exchange, leaving in late June.

[quote="Arjan Dirkse";p="2340410"]Czechs have something similar, many have this kind of inferiority (or superiority?) complex about their own language which makes them think nobody who is not Czech can speak any Czech, simply because it's too difficult for foreigners and it's too obscure a language for anyone to bother with. [/quote]

I'm relatively dark-skinned (Punjabi father, Serbian mother) and here in Poland people speak to me in English a lot even though I'm in a C1 course at the moment. When I tell them (in Polish obviously) that Polish is actually an easy language for me (because I speak Serbian with my mother), most of them just say I'm a genius or a weird exception.

I used to get into long explanations about why Polish isn't impossible even for non-Slavs but I get this Polish is really complicated rap so often that my responses have degraded to this:

Pole: Polish is a really hard language, isn't it?
Me: No, it's easy.
Pole: Oh... wow...

My flatmate is a much lighter-than-average Catalan (his look is more typical of Northern/Central Europe) and also knows Polish, and despite the fact that his intonation isn't Polish at all (although he pronounces all the consonants quite well, which is relatively difficult even for many Slavs) he often comes accross Polish people who don't believe he isn't Polish. When he says he's not Polish they say, "oh but you must have Polish family, right? Right?".
[quote="Animavore";p="2340236"]The only Polish I know, but don't know how to spell, is a tongue twister which means something like, "the table is wobbly".[/quote]

Stół z powyłamywanymi nogami. Stół z powyłamywanymi nogami. Stół z powyłamywanymi nogami.
Stół z powyłamywanymi nogami. Stół z powyłamywanymi nogami. Stół z powyłamywanymi nogami.
Stółzpowłamynmynogami.
Stółpowłanogami.

God, Polish people are obsessed with tonguetwisters. [/quote]


Yep, one's ethnicity can have an effect on how people view your language ability. I have a parallel anecdote to yours. I was sharing a taxi home with a Korean colleague and we were chatting a bit with the taxi driver. My stop was first so I gave my friend some money and exited. Once they proceeded the taxi driver mentioned to my friend how good my Japanese was, saying he was surprised when Gaijins can speak Japanese. My friend informed the taxi driver that she is a 'Gaijin' and Japanese was a foreign language to her. The taxi driver tried to do some 'digging' to find out if she was maybe half Japanese or something that would account for her superior Japanese language ability. (She also worked as a simultaneous translator, completely fluent balanced bilingual). We laughed about it when she told me afterwards.

I was in Okinawa recently and perhaps because of the US military presence there, shop staff have a lot of experience with foreigners, most of whom do not speak any Japanese. Every shop, bar hotel etc that I went into mentioned my Japanese ability. It was a real talking point. I get the sense that in some cultures the view prevails that white people are not supposed to speak any non-European language and especially native English speakers are not supposed to speak any foreign language at all.

Anyways...sorry for the derail, back to Polish.

[scott1328]

[quote="Briton";p="2426890"][quote="Scot Dutchy";p="2340418"]Like Dutch. [/quote]

I know you can't answer this until you are released from your cell but I was surprised that Dutch is considered the easiest language for an English speaker to learn. At least that was what a Youtube video on the subject claimed.[/quote]
I thought that was Canadian?

[Fallible]

Eh?