Substack on How atheist ideology messed up the human origin story

Incl. intelligent design, belief in divine creation

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Jayjay4547
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Substack on How atheist ideology messed up the human origin story

Post by Jayjay4547 »

After the moderators locked the 9 year topic "How atheist ideology messed up the human origin story", I kept monitoring the daily number of views, and found that it continued to attract the moderate interest it had enjoyed before:
Daily views after locking.jpg
Daily views after locking.jpg (33.18 KiB) Viewed 520 times
So I started a Substack where you can follow up on the topic, here is the first link I made to the first post, with the title "The Symbolic Niche hypothesis of human evolution". I hope the link works, and that you will check it out.

https://open.substack.com/pub/jayjay454 ... Share=true

Best wishes,

JJ
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Re: Substack on How atheist ideology messed up the human origin story

Post by The Serpent »

Mate,

Had a gander at your substack and that is an eye-watering wall of text.

T
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Re: Substack on How atheist ideology messed up the human origin story

Post by Spearthrower »

I think the fervent desire to curate the narrative continues the fundamental dishonesty that has characterized your relationship with other people on this forum throughout your time here. You will no doubt attempt to configure this as being some kind of rhetorical tactic, but it is an absolutely genuinely held belief on my part that you have continuously and determinedly used bad faith discussion at great and bizarre lengths.

I don't know why you are so motivated, but I simply don't share it. So why would I be interested to come and review your latest curated narrative elsewhere?

If you were honestly interested in what I have to say, then you should have addressed numerous falsehoods and erroneous claims I identified you having made over the years, but in every single instance you have refused ever to acknowledge your errors or to acknowledge what real data actually shows. You have made continuous extremely basic mistakes which obviously harm your credibility when you continue on to make yet more confident claims. You have used tactics like strawmanning and cherrypicking, you have attempted to accuse me personally of all manner of things, and you have not given any reason ever to suggest you possess any self-awareness about your role in the dramas you try to generate.

I don't actually care if you're wrong. It doesn't bother me a bit. You can have a blog and say whatever you want. Enjoy.
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Re: Substack on How atheist ideology messed up the human origin story

Post by Jayjay4547 »

Spearthrower wrote: Jan 10, 2025 2:26 am I think the fervent desire to curate the narrative continues the fundamental dishonesty that has characterized your relationship with other people on this forum throughout your time here. You will no doubt attempt to configure this as being some kind of rhetorical tactic, but it is an absolutely genuinely held belief on my part that you have continuously and determinedly used bad faith discussion at great and bizarre lengths.

I don't know why you are so motivated, but I simply don't share it. So why would I be interested to come and review your latest curated narrative elsewhere?

If you were honestly interested in what I have to say, then you should have addressed numerous falsehoods and erroneous claims I identified you having made over the years, but in every single instance you have refused ever to acknowledge your errors or to acknowledge what real data actually shows. You have made continuous extremely basic mistakes which obviously harm your credibility when you continue on to make yet more confident claims. You have used tactics like strawmanning and cherrypicking, you have attempted to accuse me personally of all manner of things, and you have not given any reason ever to suggest you possess any self-awareness about your role in the dramas you try to generate.

I don't actually care if you're wrong. It doesn't bother me a bit. You can have a blog and say whatever you want. Enjoy.
Know what? Spearthrower requits me poorly for my welcoming personal message to him on the 8th:

Hi Spearthrower,
I was glad to see your post on the eclipse this morning, after you took a break near the end of '23 I got a alarmed whether you were OK. You have been the only poster on shared topics who had a professional interest in human origins. I wish you a prosperous 2025!


I feel like that mongoose in the YouTube short that is killed by a cobra because it (the mongoose} had been tethered to a stake in the ground. The moderator Blip warned me that “any attempt to resurrect this in another topic would be viewed as trolling”. But I do have some recourse.

Take a look at the last page of the topic “How atheist ideology messed up the human origin story” Does it support what Spearthrower claimed about my posting style?

I’m not the only one taking a look at that last page. The fluctuating viewership of posts is a mystery to me, yesterday it jumped from a lingering 80 per day to over 2300. So, many people are in a position to judge for themselves. One of them might have been thrown up by a LinkedIn search of my profile from someone at the Museum für Naturkunde Berlin.

I have loved museums since a 1955 school visit to the Pretoria Museum where the highly politicized issue of human evolution put me at screaming odds with the rest of the class. I changed sides since then but my disrespect for the many-headed persists.

I also love the Australian National museum, for emphasizing the primitive features of the Flores hobbits. There seems to be something about museum staff that they don’t need to signal political correctness.

You won’t easily get my argument from that last page, or through the labor of reviewing the previous 380 pages. “The Serpent” called my Substack post “an eye-watering wall of text” though it came from only 10 A4 pages in Word. OK, what I’m arguing is basically this:

The bipedalism and short canines of the small-brained hominins reflected that their closest relationships in the savanna food chain uniquely involved wooden weapons, which created tool use and a troop boundary, hence the potential for group selection.

Human language was created by group selection for communication within competing hominin groups, as a work-around for not using chemical communications as within insect colonies.


The evidence for that thesis comes from respecting the environment as creator.
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Re: Substack on How atheist ideology messed up the human origin story

Post by Spearthrower »

I'm not really sure what that's got to do with anything. Just because you sent me a civil PM, doesn't mean I am obligated to ignore the decade plus of other interactions.

And those people you direct to look at the LAST page of your thread probably should look at a few more pages - like when you spent around 50-100 posts telling everyone that I was pulling the wool over their eyes, in fact, made all manner of stupid accusations like that I had a) lied about diagnostic characteristics then b) that I had copied without attribution the same diagnostic characteristics you'd spent months shooting your mouth off to ignore, and generally just flailing around to such an absurd degree that I think even you eventually realized it and quit the forum supposedly out of a sense of shame.*

So no, you don't wipe all that away just by being civil once. What it does net is a 'thank you for asking', which you'll note is what I replied in the PM.

And you definitely DO NOT GET TO DICTATE THE NARRATIVE. You just cannot grasp this, can you?

As for the rest, it's just you attempting to resurrect your topic yet again despite years of having failed to establish any credibility for your claims: quite the contrary.






ETA
* https://www.rationalskepticism.org/view ... l#p2802124

Just one of many of your contrived dramas - but because you sent me a civil PM, I am meant to have forgotten all this? I haven't: I won't.
Last edited by Spearthrower on Jan 11, 2025 9:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Substack on How atheist ideology messed up the human origin story

Post by Spearthrower »

I just went to look at that locked thread:

https://www.rationalskepticism.org/view ... 0#p2810690
Blip wrote:GENERAL MODNOTE
After nearly a decade this thread, characterised by repetition, goading and exchange of insults, has more than run its course and will remain locked for now.

Jayjay4547, with that in mind, any attempt to resurrect this in another topic would be viewed as trolling.

That seems pretty fucking explicit to me, and this thread seems to be specifically intended to go directly against what has been explicitly told to you by the mods - so what do you expect the outcome to be here, exactly? Do you plan to pretend to be the hard-done-by victim if you net further moderator remonstration for having overtly ignored their explicit instructions?

You do entirely to yourself JJ - you have to stop blaming other people for reacting negatively to your poor conduct. It can't be EVERYONE else, JJ. Think about it.
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Re: Substack on How atheist ideology messed up the human origin story

Post by The_Metatron »

Who else notices not one comment on Jonathan’s wall of text?

It’s as if no one cares what you wrote, JJ.

One last thing to consider, JJ. We don’t warn trolls here, we ban them. We aren’t going to re-hash your “work” on this site. You took it to another forum, have fun with it there.
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Re: Substack on How atheist ideology messed up the human origin story

Post by Spearthrower »

Spearthrower wrote: Jan 10, 2025 2:26 am I think the fervent desire to curate the narrative continues the fundamental dishonesty that has characterized your relationship with other people on this forum throughout your time here. You will no doubt attempt to configure this as being some kind of rhetorical tactic, but it is an absolutely genuinely held belief on my part that you have continuously and determinedly used bad faith discussion at great and bizarre lengths.

I don't know why you are so motivated, but I simply don't share it. So why would I be interested to come and review your latest curated narrative elsewhere?

If you were honestly interested in what I have to say, then you should have addressed numerous falsehoods and erroneous claims I identified you having made over the years, but in every single instance you have refused ever to acknowledge your errors or to acknowledge what real data actually shows. You have made continuous extremely basic mistakes which obviously harm your credibility when you continue on to make yet more confident claims. You have used tactics like strawmanning and cherrypicking, you have attempted to accuse me personally of all manner of things, and you have not given any reason ever to suggest you possess any self-awareness about your role in the dramas you try to generate.

I don't actually care if you're wrong. It doesn't bother me a bit. You can have a blog and say whatever you want. Enjoy.


Incidentally, in case this isn't understood.

JJ asked me by PM to read his substack, and this above was essentially in reply to that.

My reply is that all JJ has done is take over editorial control. He has repeatedly attempted this tactic (i.e. tone policing other peoples' responses (look above, for example), revising recorded history, quotemining and misrepresentation) in his time at RS, but of course had no power to effect such creative renditions of fact with people who are paying attention. However, I fully support this in terms of him achieving what he appears to have been trying to for over a decade: to have the lost word. In fact, I've told him a number of times over the years to get his own blog, because that's really what JJ's ideas merit. In that way, he not only gets to say whatever he wants unchallenged, he also has the power to remove offending entities, and to curate whatever he sees fit. He often seems strangely obsessed with how many people are allegedly paying attention to his threads, so a blog again just seems like a natural extension, assuring him that the many visits to his page confer some form of value on his written contentions. It's all win for JJ, I think.

However, for me.... Just the first paragraph alone provides insight into JJ's peculiar obsessions, of which I am definitely a target. For example, the caricature painted therein is that JJ has conducted some form of research, and has done so with not just the unwitting support of the membership here through contending with them in discourse, but that he used them without their knowledge in a manner that anyone credible would consider unethical. However, as it's entirely false, and entirely a contrivance, and entirely about JJ's peculiar obsessions and need to revise reality to fit his preconceptions, there was no actual manipulation of people here at all, that's another figment of the same obsessions, then there's no actual ethical fault committed, only an imaginary one.

The article then proceeds to repeat the same faulty contentions which have been challenged ad nauseam here over years - including corrections which JJ outright ignores, just doesn't even acknowledge their existence despite citing numerous links to numerous leading experts' papers showing he's wrong.

So my reply is: what exactly am I supposed to say about this, JJ? It's just you being you somewhere else. I'm not interested in correcting your errors elsewhere, particularly given how well that went here where you aren't in control. I'm obviously not going to volunteer my time to someone who appears to conceive of me as some kind of pawn in a game they've made up, with rules they've devised, where they're the winner before the game's even begun, and which I never even agreed to play.

What you might not understand JJ, is that I doubt very much you're a bad person. I am sure you're a perfectly respectable, kind chap in the real world. But this online person you've created demeans the real JJ over and over again.
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Re: Substack on How atheist ideology messed up the human origin story

Post by Jayjay4547 »

The_Metatron wrote: Jan 11, 2025 1:09 pm Who else notices not one comment on Jonathan’s wall of text?

It’s as if no one cares what you wrote, JJ.

One last thing to consider, JJ. We don’t warn trolls here, we ban them. We aren’t going to re-hash your “work” on this site. You took it to another forum, have fun with it there.
I’m the opposite of a troll. A troll doesn’t believe in any particular thing, whereas I believe that atheist ideology messed up the human origin story. No, that’s not quite right, it’s atheist propaganda. This forum is where that propaganda is expressed most obviously. For example, in these four most recent of 737 uses of the word “stained”:
Cito Nov. 22: “invented by piss-stained Bronze Age desert nomads”
Cito Nov. 13 “Your genuflection in borrowing Cali’s favourite terms “piss stained bronze age nomads”
Cito Nov. 12: You're proselytizing, purporting to sell me the contents of literature written by piss-stained bronze-age nomads,
Cali Sept 6: Just like your previous god fucked up so much as a result of being the product of piss-stained Bronze Age nomads,
I think my topic was locked because I had started to use AI effectively to express consensus positions and to argue logically, leaving opponents only able to counter by rejecting any input from AI. Helpful conversations with ChatGPT enabled me to develop my argument further and more confidently.

I configured that AI-assisted argument onto a Substack post, more or less to create an accessible, legible record. It doesn’t worry me that it has so far attracted only one comment here, and that being content-less. Debunkers aren’t generally much interested in content, they just come here geared to scoff.
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Re: Substack on How atheist ideology messed up the human origin story

Post by Cito di Pense »

Jayjay4547 wrote: Jan 13, 2025 7:02 amIt doesn’t worry me that it has so far attracted only one comment here, and that being content-less.
More to the point, it hasn't attracted any comment there. That's why you're back here abusing this forum with the usual whining about "your" topic, thereby ignoring the warning you were given when the other thread was closed. I think it's pretty clear what your intent was in starting this thread. The net is closing, JJ, and if you keep it up, you'll get yourself banned. Isn't that what you want?
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Translation by Elbert Hubbard: Do not take life too seriously. You're not going to get out of it alive.
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Re: Substack on How atheist ideology messed up the human origin story

Post by Spearthrower »

Jayjay4547 wrote: Jan 13, 2025 7:02 am I’m the opposite of a troll. A troll doesn’t believe in any particular thing, whereas I believe that atheist ideology messed up the human origin story.

While I don't think you are a troll, this definition is your usual ad hoc contrivance.

If I strongly believed that Jesus was a child molester - it wouldn't be trolling.

But if I were to spend decades on a website specifically intended for Christians with a community comprised nearly entirely of Christians, and continuously making the claim that Jesus was a child molester while repeatedly failing to ever substantiate it.... then if there is a difference between that and trolling, it's a difference that pales in significance to what it actually is: motivated by something other than just that specific belief.

As I've said before: you've become completely obsessed with this place, not with the topic, the discussion, or any of that - long ago, it became about sticking it to some of the people here - you've admitted as much in the past many times. Even when those people have left the site, in the mean-time, you've generated another suite of members your obsession now extends to, and the cycle persists.

The substack is a continuation of it, and if you were honest with yourself, or perhaps more self-aware, you'd have to admit it to yourself.
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Re: Substack on How atheist ideology messed up the human origin story

Post by Spearthrower »

Debunkers aren’t generally much interested in content,
This is the kind of outright lie that nets you the interactions here you claim so outrageous.

You can accuse me of many things, but 'failing to address your contentions substantively' is not an accusation you can float without making a total tit of yourself as I trawl back through your posting history and expose your pages and pages of shenanigans to avoid addressing evidence I've posted which oh so inconveniently contradicts your arrogant, evidence-free assertions.

I'll happily do it, and the irony is that you know I will do it, so why do you lie about recorded, factual history we're all familiar with?

Shall we talk about how you lied about me for months eventually backing yourself into a corner you could no linger slink out of and so flounced off the forum all dramatically as you had shamed your great honour, only to return a few months later and try to pretend it never happened? :)

You do not control the narrative here, chap. How have you not learned this yet?
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Re: Substack on How atheist ideology messed up the human origin story

Post by Spearthrower »

Spearthrower wrote: Jan 11, 2025 9:12 am I just went to look at that locked thread:

https://www.rationalskepticism.org/view ... 0#p2810690
Blip wrote:GENERAL MODNOTE
After nearly a decade this thread, characterised by repetition, goading and exchange of insults, has more than run its course and will remain locked for now.

Jayjay4547, with that in mind, any attempt to resurrect this in another topic would be viewed as trolling.

That seems pretty fucking explicit to me, and this thread seems to be specifically intended to go directly against what has been explicitly told to you by the mods - so what do you expect the outcome to be here, exactly? Do you plan to pretend to be the hard-done-by victim if you net further moderator remonstration for having overtly ignored their explicit instructions?

Reading that moderator post again, it strikes me that there's no point in even bothering with this thread as it's likely to be deleted, or at best wrapped into the locked one.

Plus, as it notes, it's all proforma now. Leopards haven't changed their spots, so why would this thread be any different than the last?
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Re: Substack on How atheist ideology messed up the human origin story

Post by The_Metatron »


!
MODNOTE
This topic is closed.

JJ, we closed your other topic. You took it to another forum and came here to tell us, thanks for the bulletin. You have your AI written, highly developed and confidently posted topic elsewhere. Have fun with it.

We’re not restarting it here again.

The_Metatron
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