Made of Stars wrote:

DavidMcC wrote:

Made of Stars wrote:Who said they identify with him? And there's more to a person than their rationalism or religion. You're both strawmanning, and presenting a false dichotomy.

Whilst it is true that there is more to a person than their faith, you are, none-the-less being naive, because, when a national hero starts talking in religious terms, he is definitely spreading religion.

What are you on about? Someone was disparaging of Buzz Aldrin comments on rocketry and space exploration because he's religious. That's just bigoted. Religious people can say accurate and profound things on unrelated topics, and what they say should be judged on its merits.

Nonsense.
A. He was bringing his faith into his moon-walking. If I am being bigoted by pointing out that that is proselytising, then this site must be for "bigots". Your criticism of me would be valid IF he had not gone on about about "god" when talking about his experiences on the moon.

EDIT: I would not have complained if all Aldrin had talked about was how beautiful the earth looked from the moon. Unfortunately, that was not all he talked about - he brought "God" in as well.
If I seem to be repeating myself, it is because you are repeatedly missing the point.

What the hell does that have to do with his commentary on private companies helping with space travel?

DarthHelmet86 wrote:What the hell does that have to do with his commentary on private companies helping with space travel?

Not a lot, but that was not all he was saying. If it upsets you, I will not continue this argument any further here, OK?
Let us hope that any future Spacex astronauts don't follow Aldrin's example from years ago!

The argument doesn't upset me, the fact it has nothing to do with the thread or the article posted does. It just amounted to you trying to throw a bit of mud at Buzz for no good reason.

DarthHelmet86 wrote:That was a wonderful article. I tend to forget that Aldrin and co weren't average Joes flown into space by scientists, they were incredibly clever people who were just as important to the whole deal as the people planning it on the ground. And that article shows it, he knows what he is on about.

This is the post that brought Aldrin into the thread, Darth.

EDIT: What concerns me most is that, on a site dedicated to combatting religious faith, you would argue that that subject should be excised from any thread, even if the title/OP doesn't explicitly mention faith/religion.

No it wasn't can you not even get that right? It was a response to the post that linked to an article he wrote about private companies and space travel. And just because he is religious doesn't make him not smart, clever, talented or not know what he is on about.

DarthHelmet86 wrote:No it wasn't can you not even get that right? It was a response to the post that linked to an article he wrote about private companies and space travel. And just because he is religious doesn't make him not smart, clever, talented or not know what he is on about.

I realise that some religious people are smart, but I see that as a problem, not a plus, as you seem to.
EDIT: A problem for rationalism, that is.

I am sorry where did I say it was a plus? Did you read what I wrote or something else? I said his religion has no bearing on him being smart. So in the end this amounted to you wanting to throw some mud at Aldrin because you don't like the fact that he is religious. You can't point out how it affects his points, ideas or arguments when it comes to private companies and space travel. Very rational.

DarthHelmet86 wrote:I am sorry where did I say it was a plus? Did you read what I wrote or something else? I said his religion has no bearing on him being smart. So in the end this amounted to you wanting to throw some mud at Aldrin because you don't like the fact that he is religious. You can't point out how it affects his points, ideas or arguments when it comes to private companies and space travel. Very rational.

Of course his religion has no bearing on his being smart, but that was not the issue. The issue that "his arguments" clearly include the argument for God! If you think I'm just "throwing mud" at him for doing that, then I wander why you are on this site.

This is just silly, his arguments for god have no bearing on his other arguments unless he ties it to his god argument. If you want to tackle his arguments for space travel and private companies go for it. Don't just throw mud about him believing in god and then assert that means his other arguments are always flawed.

DarthHelmet86 wrote:This is just silly, his arguments for god have no bearing on his other arguments unless he ties it to his god argument.

That's exactly what he did, at least in some interviews after the moon trip. Perhaps he was just being manipulated by the interviewer?

If you want to tackle his arguments for space travel and private companies go for it.

No, because I don't know whether he did that.

Don't just throw mud about him believing in god and then assert that means his other arguments are always flawed.

Ahem! Where did I say his other arguments were flawed! Anyhasowm, what arguments? (Rhetorical question.) All I ever argued was that he appeared to be trying to spread religious faith on the strength of his moon walks and iconic status among (particularly young) Americans. Or is that too much criticism of your hero (which he obviously is)?

... You seem to be getting the wrong end of the stick! Perhaps he is so much a hero of yours that you are blind to any down side of his utterances.

Made of Stars wrote:http://time.com/3945033/buzz-aldrin-spacex-commercial-space-travel/

Right DavidMcC this is where he did that. It was the post that I responded to with the post you quoted. I even told you that when you wrongly quoted me as being how he entered the thread. Buzz didn't just jump into this thread for no reason, he wrote an article which matched the threads topic and we talked about it. You then threw mud about his religion and seem to not even know why people were talking about him.

DarthHelmet86 wrote:

Made of Stars wrote:http://time.com/3945033/buzz-aldrin-spacex-commercial-space-travel/

Right DavidMcC this is where he did that. It was the post that I responded to with the post you quoted. I even told you that when you wrongly quoted me as being how he entered the thread. Buzz didn't just jump into this thread for no reason, he wrote an article which matched the threads topic and we talked about it. You then threw mud about his religion and seem to not even know why people were talking about him.

I don't think "throwing mud" is a fair characterisation of my suggestion that Aldrin appeared to be exploiting his hero status to "put a good word in for god"! Nor does it matter "why people are talking about him", unless, of course, rationalism is to be thrown out of the window just because the thread is about SpaceX.

... I'm detecting an unscientific, creationist concept here - that any criticism of someone's hero is tantamount to an all-out war against said hero. It's reminiscent of the "infallibility of the Bible"! Aldrin has to be infallible, or else he's nothing!

No DavidMcC that isn't what I or others have been saying. We have trying to work out why you felt the need to start talking about Aldrin's religion. It seems even you don't really know, you just saw his name saw people saying good things about him and other astronauts and just had to say it. It doesn't matter that the reason people were talking about him was because of his opinions and arguments about private companies helping with space travel. You don't even seem to want to read his article or attack his points within it. Leaving the rest of us rather baffled about what the whole damn point of your post was.

If you don't see the relevance of Aldrin's religiosity on a rationalist site, we might as well pack it in.
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But his religion has nothing to do with his points about space travel and private companies. And religious people can still be rational and make sound rational arguments.

DarthHelmet86 wrote:But his religion has nothing to do with his points about space travel and private companies. And religious people can still be rational and make sound rational arguments.

Really? Even the right-wing US religious right?
Aldrin claims that the SpaceX accident shows that there should be more private space travel not less. Maybe he's part of the religious right, because they would say that as well, surely?

DarthHelmet86 wrote:But his religion has nothing to do with his points about space travel and private companies. And religious people can still be rational and make sound rational arguments.