Non-human animals don't feel pain as human animals do

willhud9 · **#461** by **willhud9** » Jan 12, 2014 6:45 am

Supporting Caste wrote:
willhud9 wrote:
Supporting Caste wrote:
willhud9 wrote:I don't think we are in dominion over the natural world. Earthquakes and hurricanes seem to do just fine decimating entire cities and humans alone aren't very formidable at defending themselves, except for their brain and their elaborate use of tools.

So you reject the idea of the Anthropocene?

No I believe they have influenced the world, much in the same way beavers, ants, and other animals have an influence on their ecosystem. I do not believe we have dominion over it or some authority over it. Humans die just the same as other animals.

So is that a "no" then?

Anthropocene is simply the idea that humans have influenced and changed the world and its ecosystem. It has nothing to do with dominion over anything.

THWOTH · **#462** by **THWOTH** » Jan 12, 2014 9:18 am

willhud9 wrote:
Supporting Caste wrote:
willhud9 wrote:
Supporting Caste wrote:

So you reject the idea of the Anthropocene?

No I believe they have influenced the world, much in the same way beavers, ants, and other animals have an influence on their ecosystem. I do not believe we have dominion over it or some authority over it. Humans die just the same as other animals.

So is that a "no" then?

Anthropocene is simply the idea that humans have influenced and changed the world and its ecosystem. It has nothing to do with dominion over anything.

So being a human gives one no specific right or responsibility to torture another creature, or not. Then we're talking ethics, specifically whether, when, and why it's OK to torture another creature, or not, for fun.

Saying it's just an opinion or just down to personal choice isn't quite good enough here because it does not address the issue - in fact it ignores the issue.

angelo · **#463** by **angelo** » Jan 12, 2014 12:45 pm

The point here is that most of the animal kingdom on this planet have evolved with a nervous system attached to some kind of a brain in order to facilitate the survival of the species.
Because of that, animals raised to be eaten by humans, because I would like to think that we as a superior species should cause as little pain as possible to them when slaughtered.
In killing for sport that is not possible.

Supporting Caste · **#464** by **Supporting Caste** » Jan 12, 2014 7:03 pm

willhud9 wrote:
Supporting Caste wrote:
willhud9 wrote:
Supporting Caste wrote:

So you reject the idea of the Anthropocene?

No I believe they have influenced the world, much in the same way beavers, ants, and other animals have an influence on their ecosystem. I do not believe we have dominion over it or some authority over it. Humans die just the same as other animals.

So is that a "no" then?

Anthropocene is simply the idea that humans have influenced and changed the world and its ecosystem. It has nothing to do with dominion over anything.

Well at least you got the "simply" part right, if you meant over simplification.
Are you a climate change denier as well?
If you care about being intellectually honest, you may want to dig a bit deeper into the concept.

ScientificSkeptic · **#465** by **ScientificSkeptic** » Feb 07, 2014 4:26 pm

Yup they feel it in a less complex way. We are animals that have a more complex and developed brain. We feel pain in a dramatic, emotional way.

If a animal tries to eat a porcupine, why do they give up when they get "cut".

When dogs fight, they bite each other very hard,not like when they play.

If a ant gets it's leg ripped off, signals go to their brain to tell them"your leg is gone!!!" that "signal" is "pain"...

Not too long ago we were "Apes" Why are these scientists wasting time with these studies that can be summed up so easily just by understanding basic science....

ScientificSkeptic · **#466** by **ScientificSkeptic** » Feb 07, 2014 4:36 pm

Are you a climate change denier as well?

Are you a conspiracy theorist?

Onyx8 · **#467** by **Onyx8** » Feb 07, 2014 5:02 pm

We are still apes.

ScientificSkeptic · **#468** by **ScientificSkeptic** » Feb 07, 2014 5:06 pm

Onyx8 wrote:We are still apes.

We are "humans" - a "smart ape".

So when we refer to ourselves, we use the word "human", not ape. An ape is those animals that run around and can not talk and eat bananas. We are the ones you see driving cars.....and do tests on apes....

Onyx8 · **#469** by **Onyx8** » Feb 07, 2014 5:52 pm

We are apes.

ScientificSkeptic · **#470** by **ScientificSkeptic** » Feb 07, 2014 6:11 pm

Lets get rid of the word "human"then?

Time to reprint the dictionaries.

The_Piper · **#471** by **The_Piper** » Feb 07, 2014 6:21 pm

Then we should get rid of the word chimpanzee too? We're certainly special, but I think that technically we're not physically/anatomically different enough from other great apes to name a separate order of mammals just for humans.
We're the only apes that make cars. Other ones can drive them. Motorcycles too. :tongue:

ScientificSkeptic · **#472** by **ScientificSkeptic** » Feb 07, 2014 6:26 pm

I am pretty sure we are humans? You know, the apes that decided to eat meat and "mushrooms" that allowed their brains to develop rapidly. Hey, I do not write the history books....

The_Piper · **#473** by **The_Piper** » Feb 07, 2014 7:14 pm

ScientificSkeptic wrote:I am pretty sure we are humans? You know, the apes that decided to eat meat and "mushrooms" that allowed their brains to develop rapidly. Hey, I do not write the history books....

The apes I called "certainly special".
But we're still great apes. We're not the great apes called chimpanzees, we're not the great apes called gorillas, we're the great apes called humans. I didn't write the taxonomic rules.

THWOTH · **#474** by **THWOTH** » Feb 07, 2014 7:41 pm

wikipedia wrote:
The Hominidae form a taxonomic family of primates, including four extant genera:

chimpanzees (Pan) – 2 species
gorillas (Gorilla) – 2 species
humans (Homo) – 1 species
orangutans (Pongo) – 2 species

The term "hominid" is also used in the more restricted sense as hominins or "humans and relatives of humans closer than chimpanzees". In this usage, all hominid species other than Homo sapiens are extinct. A number of known extinct genera are grouped with humans in the Homininae subfamily, others with orangutans in the Ponginae subfamily. The most recent common ancestor of the Hominidae lived roughly 14 million years ago, when the ancestors of the orangutans speciated from the ancestors of the other three genera. The ancestors of the Hominidae family had already speciated from those of the Hylobatidae family, perhaps 15 million to 20 million years ago.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hominidae

The_Piper · **#475** by **The_Piper** » Feb 07, 2014 8:16 pm

(/hɒˈmɪnɨdiː/; also known as great apes[notes 1])
^^^ You cut out this part. :scratch:

Using the term Great Ape, however, always includes the other 4 living species. AFAIK.
Humans are the sole living species in our genus. Of course we're not the only animals that have their own genus, but there's that.

Woodchucks share the genus Marmota with 14 other species. But woodchucks are special amongst the marmots. They're the only solitary marmot species, and the only primarily lowland marmot species. Check mate, woodchuck haters! :drunk:

THWOTH · **#476** by **THWOTH** » Feb 07, 2014 8:21 pm

The_Piper wrote:(/hɒˈmɪnɨdiː/; also known as great apes[notes 1])
^^^ You cut out this part.
Using the term Great Ape, however, always includes the other 4 living species. AFAIK.

Oops. Trying to edit out footnote references on the phone. :oops:

The_Piper · **#477** by **The_Piper** » Feb 07, 2014 8:25 pm

THWOTH wrote:
The_Piper wrote:(/hɒˈmɪnɨdiː/; also known as great apes[notes 1])
^^^ You cut out this part.
Using the term Great Ape, however, always includes the other 4 living species. AFAIK.

Oops. Trying to edit out footnote references on the phone.

I thought it was a vendetta! :tongue:

Agrippina · **#478** by **Agrippina** » Feb 08, 2014 5:21 am

Onyx8 wrote:We are still apes.

Yep. Orang-utans are amazing:

angelo · **#479** by **angelo** » Feb 09, 2014 9:55 am

The question arises. Have these apes evolved in any way, or are they still the same as they were thousands of years ago?

THWOTH · **#480** by **THWOTH** » Feb 09, 2014 11:35 am

angelo wrote:The question arises. Have these apes evolved in any way, or are they still the same as they were thousands of years ago?

Evolutionary processes are ongoing.

Non-human animals don't feel pain as human animals do

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