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UtilityMonster wrote:..whereby [banks] take in deposits and lend it out to other people...
Cheaper?Panderos wrote:
What that video says is that this bitUtilityMonster wrote:..whereby [banks] take in deposits and lend it out to other people...
Is not right - that they aren't lending out parts of deposits, but lending out of thin air. Personally I suspect the video is wrong and the banks have to borrow from the Central Bank in order to do this. But this still raises the question, if banks can borrow from a central bank why do they need depositors?
I hate this shit but at the same time my lack of understanding really bugs me..
GT2211 wrote:Cheaper?
lol when I saw the board open I planned on starting a thread called 'A Thread for Panderos' focused on money as I figured this would come up. Unfortunately I've been a bit busy the last week and haven't been around to post much.
By the way I hate that avatar, please please change it.
Ok yes, cheaper fair enough. Except why do I see accounts offering, say 5% interest when the current Bank Base Rate is only 0.5%?
GT2211 wrote:lol when I saw the board open I planned on starting a thread called 'A Thread for Panderos' focused on money as I figured this would come up.
GT2211 wrote:No clue. If I get around to it I may ask, but a lot of checking accounts pay no interest. I suspect it may be a way of luring in potential borrowers for Nationwide.
Blackadder wrote:
1. Very simply put, in the open market, the central bank can purchase government debt. By doing so, it puts money into the account of whoever it bought the debt from and this crates a bank deposit and the multiplier effect takes over and money supply goes up. This is a common tactic used by central banks.
2. The central bank can change the multiplier by changing the reserve requirement. This is done very infrequently as it is disruptive to banks operations if the reserve ratio changes overnight.
The role of reserves and money in macroeconomics has a long history. Simple textbook treatments of the money multiplier give the quantity of bank reserves a causal role in determining the quantity of money and bank lending and thus the transmission mechanism of monetary policy. This role results from the assumptions that reserve requirements generate a
direct and tight linkage between money and reserves and that the central bank controls the money supply by adjusting the quantity of reserves through open market operations. Using data from recent decades, we have demonstrated that this simple textbook link is implausible in the United States for a number of reasons. First, when money is measured as M2, only a small
portion of it is reservable and thus only a small portion is linked to the level of reserve balances the Fed provides through open market operations. Second, except for a brief period in the early 1980s, the Fed has traditionally aimed to control the federal funds rate rather than the quantity of reserves. Third, reserve balances are not identical to required reserves, and the federal funds rate is the interest rate in the market for all reserve balances, not just required reserves. Reserve balances are supplied elastically at the target funds rate. Finally, reservable liabilities fund only a small fraction of bank lending and the evidence suggests that they are not the marginal source of funding, either. All of these points are a reflection of the institutional structure of the U.S. banking system and suggest that the textbook role of money is not operative.
While the institutional facts alone provide compelling support for our view, we also demonstrate empirically that the relationships implied by the money multiplier do not exist in the data for the most liquid and well-capitalized banks.Changes in reserves are unrelated to changes in lending, and open market operations do not have a direct impact on lending. We conclude that the textbook treatment of money in the transmission mechanism can be rejected. Specifically, our results indicate that bank loan supply does not respond to changes in monetary policy through a bank lending channel, no matter how we group the banks.
Panderos wrote:Blackadder, thanks for replying. I know the video referred to it but this thread isn't intended to be about the financial crisis, and I don't disagree about what you said there. Here I'm really interested in how banking / central banking works (and I'm not, at least not yet, interested in their new post-crisis 'innovations'. Just the 'normal stuff').
Anyway, couple of questions (for now )
First, do you know why banks are offering accounts with interest rates higher than the Central Bank Base rate? I mean if they can borrow at 0.5% from the Bank of England, why set up a 5% current account?
Second, is it your understanding that accounts with a central bank are separate from accounts within commercial banks? That is, a bank cannot just type a number into one of their current accounts and then transfer that into their account with the central bank?
Panderos wrote:Blackadder, thanks for replying. I know the video referred to it but this thread isn't intended to be about the financial crisis, and I don't disagree about what you said there. Here I'm really interested in how banking / central banking works (and I'm not, at least not yet, interested in their new post-crisis 'innovations'. Just the 'normal stuff').
Anyway, couple of questions (for now )
First, do you know why banks are offering accounts with interest rates higher than the Central Bank Base rate? I mean if they can borrow at 0.5% from the Bank of England, why set up a 5% current account?
Panderos wrote:
Second, is it your understanding that accounts with a central bank are separate from accounts within commercial banks? That is, a bank cannot just type a number into one of their current accounts and then transfer that into their account with the central bank?
GT2211 wrote:Blackadder wrote:
1. Very simply put, in the open market, the central bank can purchase government debt. By doing so, it puts money into the account of whoever it bought the debt from and this crates a bank deposit and the multiplier effect takes over and money supply goes up. This is a common tactic used by central banks.
2. The central bank can change the multiplier by changing the reserve requirement. This is done very infrequently as it is disruptive to banks operations if the reserve ratio changes overnight.
I don't think this is quite right.The role of reserves and money in macroeconomics has a long history. Simple textbook treatments of the money multiplier give the quantity of bank reserves a causal role in determining the quantity of money and bank lending and thus the transmission mechanism of monetary policy. This role results from the assumptions that reserve requirements generate a
direct and tight linkage between money and reserves and that the central bank controls the money supply by adjusting the quantity of reserves through open market operations. Using data from recent decades, we have demonstrated that this simple textbook link is implausible in the United States for a number of reasons. First, when money is measured as M2, only a small
portion of it is reservable and thus only a small portion is linked to the level of reserve balances the Fed provides through open market operations. Second, except for a brief period in the early 1980s, the Fed has traditionally aimed to control the federal funds rate rather than the quantity of reserves. Third, reserve balances are not identical to required reserves, and the federal funds rate is the interest rate in the market for all reserve balances, not just required reserves. Reserve balances are supplied elastically at the target funds rate. Finally, reservable liabilities fund only a small fraction of bank lending and the evidence suggests that they are not the marginal source of funding, either. All of these points are a reflection of the institutional structure of the U.S. banking system and suggest that the textbook role of money is not operative.
While the institutional facts alone provide compelling support for our view, we also demonstrate empirically that the relationships implied by the money multiplier do not exist in the data for the most liquid and well-capitalized banks.Changes in reserves are unrelated to changes in lending, and open market operations do not have a direct impact on lending. We conclude that the textbook treatment of money in the transmission mechanism can be rejected. Specifically, our results indicate that bank loan supply does not respond to changes in monetary policy through a bank lending channel, no matter how we group the banks.
http://www.federalreserve.gov/pubs/feds ... 041pap.pdf
Blackadder wrote:Generally (and as always I am simplifying) there are two reasons why a bank may be offering a rate of interest that is significantly higher than the base rate.
First, note that the BofE base rate is a rate for overnight deposits. It is therefore the rate for the shortest possible deposit. Most of the time (although there are exceptions), rates for longer term deposits are higher than for shorter terms, for numerous reasons that I will skip over for now. This is referred to as a "positive yield curve". The yield curve plots the interest rates that apply in a market at each point in the time scale from overnight out to 25 years. A bank offering a "high" interest rate will probably require you to lock up your funds for 3 to 5 years, I would expect. It can offer a higher rate since it can invest your deposit at a higher rate than the overnight headline rate.
Blackadder wrote:The second reason, (and the two reasons can sometime both apply) is that the bank is trying to build its depositor base
and is willing to offer an off-market rate just to get you in. This is no different to a supermarket loss-leader product. It is usually temporary and lasts only until the bank has achieved its target for new deposits.
Blackadder wrote:I'm not sure whose accounts you mean. I assume you mean a commercial bank's account with a central bank as opposed to a commercial bank's account with another commercial bank? They are certainly separate. They are not different, so a bank cannot simply "type a number" into its system and claim that it has created money. There clearing and settlement systems in every country that the banks use to process transfers between each other. A bank cannot simply initiate a transfer to another bank without showing which account the money is leaving. Otherwise the transfer will fail to settle and be voided.
Now, it strikes me as utterly bizarre that anyone freaks out over this. No actually currency is being produced, and lending money dramatically improves economic efficiency and growth as money is diverted from savers with no use for it at the time to borrowers who may have profitable investments or need for consumption at the time. Obviously bank runs can ensue, but our federal deposit insurance system insures deposits of up to like $250k now, and few reasonable people actually fear a run
Regular banks can't create new money.
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