MacIver wrote:

I don't agree with everything Prof Dawkins says. But his assertion that there is no such thing as a Christian, Muslim or Atheist child is 100% correct. They are just children fer-christs-sake!

Amen, Halleluliah!

If you really want things to change then you have to pick your battles because you can't fight on all fronts.

Many parents will not understand or agree with a fight against Nativity plays etc because they are cultural Christians and they are quite happy to have these traditions without believing that the stories are true. Even Dawkins describes himself as a cultural Christian.

It seems to me that the thing to hold this school to account for (and is something you'd be far more likely to get support with) is the lack of anything OTHER than religious plays on offer for the drama club in a non faith school. That's where they are on very dodgy ground and you could ask for a justification for this in writing (because as you well know there isn't one) and if you play it right, you can get the drama club changed for the better. When you've achieved that, you can tackle the next challenge and by chipping away, you'll enlighten the governing body and other parents to those areas where the headteacher might be pursuing a religious agenda in a non-faith school.

Hmm weird. My Catholic primary school did a nativity play every Christmas, but the summer play was always whatever Disney had adapted that year. My sister played Cinderella. I also remember that the Genie in Aladdin was actually the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, who were also popular at the time. In secondary school, also Catholic, there were never any religious plays. I think they might've done Joseph once, but only because it was a big musical, not because it was religious.

If you wanted to be really underhand about this, don't suggest that they do some secular things, instead suggest that the teachers allow the students to pick the play they want to do. I absolutely guarantee there will be nothing religious in site. It will be The Wizard of Oz, Grease, Glee, Hairspray, or whatever else happens to be in popular culture at the time. There are sometimes copyright issues with them though. I remember I went to watch my cousin doing Grease, and there was one song they weren't allowed to sing (the most famous one), despite being allowed to do all of the others. But at least in principle, I don't see how they could object to giving the students more of a say in the choice of play.

Also, an amateur dramatics society might be an alternative if they really do start taking the piss with their choice of plays. But if worst comes to worst, remember, it's called acting. And I'm guessing she's not yet gone for the whole Daniel Day Lewis method acting thing yet, so I wouldn't worry about it too much. Remember, it's what you don't tell kids that's the problem, not what you do tell them. They're usually pretty good at figuring out the bullshit if you give them the full picture.

Thanks, guys, that's some good advice. I'll cogitate on a strategy.

Ubjon wrote:

Shrunk wrote:Is this kind of thing legal in the UK? Over here, we don't even allow Xmas carols at the annual "Winter Pageant." To be honest, I kind of miss them.

As far as I'm aware schools are still supposed to force you to pray every day in the UK.

No, that's not true Ubjon. Legally schools are required to have an act of 'collective worship' each day, but each time someone attempts to define 'collective worship' it gets further and further from what you'd expect in a place of worship. So, many schools fulfil the spirit of the law by having a thought for the day or 'reflection'. Many more have assemblies with themes drawn from the various religious traditions but presenting it in such a way so that each participant is free to draw their own conclusions and think about what the theme might say to them. And a hell of a lot just don't do it!

BB, sorry, I've only just found this thread. I know it's hard for you to be the seemingly only person at that school protesting, but you don't know how many people are silently putting up with it.

I can remember a meeting where we were discussing guidance we were producing re: collective worship, which we called "Reflection". There was some dismay because the guidance wasn't encouraging prayer (it wasn't discouraging it, rather it was saying at the end of an assembly have a moment of silence where people could think, meditate or pray, whatever they wanted). One Sikh SACRE member said "But we can all agree about God!" And about six of us raised our hands and said "Oh no we can't!"

Jan wrote:
It seems to me that the thing to hold this school to account for (and is something you'd be far more likely to get support with) is the lack of anything OTHER than religious plays on offer for the drama club in a non faith school. That's where they are on very dodgy ground and you could ask for a justification for this in writing (because as you well know there isn't one) and if you play it right, you can get the drama club changed for the better. When you've achieved that, you can tackle the next challenge and by chipping away, you'll enlighten the governing body and other parents to those areas where the headteacher might be pursuing a religious agenda in a non-faith school.

I agree with this, I think this is a very good suggestion.

I sympathise. Our daughter's (non denominational) primary school has an evangelical god-botherer for a headmistress and we've been at our wits' end trying to fight the constant indoctrination that goes on. There was and still is nothing in the prospectus or school handbook about any religious affiliation or leaning yet the girls are taught hymns, prayers and sickeningly saccharine songs about Jesus. The other parents just seem to ignore this, even the non-Christian faiths, as they don;t want to rock the boat, allowing the simpering cretin who runs the school to get away with the most appalling wooly-minded shit instead of giving the girls a proper secular education.

The last straw for me was their Darwin project this year. This is Year 3, so the kids are 7 and 8 years old. They performed a play about Darwin. Apart from it being trite, scientifically illiterate, and full of basic errors like getting the name of his seminal book wrong on the main prop in the play, they finished the play by singing All Things Bright and Beautiful, The Lord God Made Them All. One of the teachers had written a special extra verse which went "He even made Charles Darwin, And taught him how to see, That Everything Is Changing, Even you and me..", at which point I walked out.

Our daughter is moving school in September and we have slaughtered the school in the OFSTED inspector's parents' questionnaire that we coincidentally received last month. Fucking Jebus freaks - they just assume the right to spread their fucked up mental garbage to other people's kids and then look puzzled and hurt when you tell them it's unacceptable.

Jesus f-ing christ! That's exactly the kind of shit I'm dealing with, even to the head teacher. At least I didn't have the Darwin bullshit.

Nora - thanks again for the great advice. As usual, you're accurate and compassionate.

BB

as a primary school teacher of over 15 years, i have often been in charge of productions/plays etc. and consistently ensure that they have absolutely no religious content at all - i hate the assumption that a play at xmas should be the nativity and nothing else - in three schools ive taught at i have, very quickly, replaced them with pantos

much more opportunity to insert monty python and marx brothers quips....

Ubjon wrote:

Shrunk wrote:Is this kind of thing legal in the UK? Over here, we don't even allow Xmas carols at the annual "Winter Pageant." To be honest, I kind of miss them.

As far as I'm aware schools are still supposed to force you to pray every day in the UK.

Only if they buy me the plane ticket. Every day. Return.