The end is nigh.

http://www.theguardian.com/education/20 ... f-comments

Just showed a colleague the article and we both agreed that the literacy figures for Japan don't ring true. (Both of us have many years between us of teaching at tertiary level in Japan.) Due to the nature of the education system here and the vagaries of the writing system, many many Japanese have rather patchy literacy. They know what they know and are completely in the dark about everything else.
For English speakers literacy kind of 'greys out' as you move into more complex language and more abstract topics. I certainly couldn't read English language theoretical science journal papers with any kind of ease, but i can have a guess and use inference skills to read stuff that is high end but not too specialist.

Japanese speakers regularly need in-text help for even quotidian topics. It is called Furigana. Basically it is a phonetic superscript next to or above a Kanji to help the reader work out what word it is.
I happen to be reading a Japanese novel at the moment (on my electronic dictionary) an when i looked at the current page i found the word 骨稽　with the furigana next to it こっけい　（Ko:kei) I looked it up and it is defined as 'funny' or 'ridiculous'. My Japanese co-workers understood the word immediately when i said it to them. But still, it needs in-text clues to aid the reader.
Most pages of my current novel have one or two words with Furigana.

Similarly, due to the rise of keyboarding, many Japanese now have real problems handwriting. The difference between being able to read a Kanji and being able to write it is stark, and scarcely believable until you have been put on the spot.

I think we have to be clear about what we are measuring when we refer to 'literacy'.

Yeah, I've heard similar things about Chinese, with highly educated people simply forgetting how to write pretty simple words because they have such a complex writing system.

The artical linked too downt say anything abowt France/Germany.

Yes, it does in the tables at the bottom where the ranks are given.

The results are hardly unexpected. Young british people these days appear to have appaling standards with both english and grammar.

Veida wrote:Yes, it does in the tables at the bottom where the ranks are given.

The article is almost totally about the UK, and the fact that "England is the only country in the developed world where the generation approaching retirement is more literate and numerate than the youngest adults".

The appearance of France in the tables, alongside all the other countries in the top 22/24, hardly seems reason enough to specifically identify France in the thread title.

Well, don't you Britons have some sort of long-standing grudge going on with the Germans and the French?

I suppose the Guardian wanted to ride on that.

quisquose wrote:

Veida wrote:Yes, it does in the tables at the bottom where the ranks are given.

The article is almost totally about the UK, and the fact that "England is the only country in the developed world where the generation approaching retirement is more literate and numerate than the youngest adults".

The appearance of France in the tables, alongside all the other countries in the top 22/24, hardly seems reason enough to specifically identify France in the thread title.

Dear God. It was an attempt at a joke. Plus I had in mind the sensitivities of our English members. So writing that the English cannot read particularly well would have collided with the famed British sense of humour.
(Last sentence also attempt at joke).

archibald wrote:The results are hardly unexpected. Young british people these days appear to have appaling standards with both english and grammar.

It's "English".

Veida wrote:Well, don't you Britons have some sort of long-standing grudge going on with the Germans and the French?

I suppose the Guardian wanted to ride on that.

Eh?

The Guardian article doesn't mention France, save for the fact that the OECD report was launched on Tuesday in Paris, and it's inclusion of the tables. Also the thread wasn't started by a Briton.

quisquose wrote:

Veida wrote:Well, don't you Britons have some sort of long-standing grudge going on with the Germans and the French?

I suppose the Guardian wanted to ride on that.

Eh?

The Guardian article doesn't mention France, save for the fact that the OECD report was launched on Tuesday in Paris, and it's inclusion of the tables. Also the thread wasn't started by a Briton.

Confusion reigns supreme.

Regina wrote:
Dear God. It was an attempt at a joke. Plus I had in mind the sensitivities of our English members. So writing
that the English cannot read particularly well would have collided with the famed British sense of humour
( Last sentence also attempt at joke )

But you are German and it is a well known fact that you have no sense of humour ha ha
[ next time you are being ironic just drop a heavy hint so we can pretend to get it ]
But yes we English do have sensitive members [ see what I did there ? ha ha ]

quisquose wrote:

Veida wrote:Well, don't you Britons have some sort of long-standing grudge going on with the Germans and the French?

I suppose the Guardian wanted to ride on that.

Eh?

The Guardian article doesn't mention France, save for the fact that the OECD report was launched on Tuesday in Paris, and it's inclusion of the tables. Also the thread wasn't started by a Briton.

Ah. I see. Never mind.

surreptitious57 wrote:

Regina wrote:
Dear God. It was an attempt at a joke. Plus I had in mind the sensitivities of our English members. So writing
that the English cannot read particularly well would have collided with the famed British sense of humour
( Last sentence also attempt at joke )

But you are German and it is a well known fact that you have no sense of humour ha ha
[ next time you are being ironic just drop a heavy hint so we can pretend to get it ]
But yes we English do have sensitive members [ see what I did there ? ha ha ]

Phew. Good thing we cleared that up. Can we now take the piss out of La Grande Nation?

Regina wrote:Confusion reigns supreme.

It obviously does.

Actually I was just getting really fed up with all the news stories about this today, the usual stuff about how we're all going to hell in a handcart, and it was a relief to see your thread title.

I'm sure that the study probably just shows that literacy and numeracy are steadily declining across the board, not in comparison to other countries, but in comparison to previous generations. I was hoping to find some clarification of that suspicion.

Regina wrote:

surreptitious57 wrote:

Regina wrote:
Dear God. It was an attempt at a joke. Plus I had in mind the sensitivities of our English members. So writing
that the English cannot read particularly well would have collided with the famed British sense of humour
( Last sentence also attempt at joke )

But you are German and it is a well known fact that you have no sense of humour ha ha
[ next time you are being ironic just drop a heavy hint so we can pretend to get it ]
But yes we English do have sensitive members [ see what I did there ? ha ha ]

Phew. Good thing we cleared that up. Can we now take the piss out of La Grande Nation ?

The French are great lovers and deep thinkers. Your turn

archibald wrote:The results are hardly unexpected. Young british people these days appear to have appaling standards with both english and grammar.

What the L? My grandma has appalling standards but she knows dat proper names gets a cap'tal lettah! Don't dis the wrinklies blud.

What amazes me are the Finns. Well done to them. Strangely not a mention of them in the article.

Mind you the Dutch have not done so bad.

I agree about the comments on Japan. I suppose that could applied to the Koreans as well. I once had Korean acquaintance that claimed Korean was the most complicated languages in the world.

Just as a footnote there two Dutch schools moving over to the Finnish system. Worth reading about it. What they achieve is truly unbelievable.

Personally, I think a public school system should always favour an overtly educational ethos, education for the sake of it, over a training for work ethos - education should be the gateway to a successful life rather than merely a gateway to a successful career.