Skinny Puppy wrote:Of course you didn’t say that, but it was very strongly implied. Plus, I did qualify it by adding the extra part in parenthesis:

toe the gender line (and who doesn't appear and act in accordance with the expectations of society)

So why should a guy who doesn't appear and act in accordance with the expectations of society be laughed at and felt sorry for?

Once again, Skinny, it has nothing to do with the 'expectations of society'. You are misinterpreting to suit your own agenda, but I'm not sure I can explain or describe just where or why the impulse to laugh might originate in a way that you will understand.

I'm sure you are aware that there are differences in male and female approaches to relationships, and appreciation of sex, erotica, porn, etc.., so the basis is psychological. There's not a lot society can do about that.

But go ahead. If you want to believe that I am 'holding two diametrically opposite opinions on the same subject' be my guest.

And no, there's no confusion about any mod note. I probably just don't care enough to take that much notice.

Edit to add: Oh yes, I forgot to say.... Re the particular photo in question, I also find the female version slightly cringeworthy and a little amusing, or perhaps bemusing. I guess this might have something to do with my advanced age, but I also think that it might be that I, unfortunately for me, understand and dislike the mind-set of some of the men who would appreciate it.

Doubtdispelled wrote:
I'm sure you are aware that there are differences in male and female approaches to relationships, and appreciation of sex, erotica, porn, etc.., so the basis is psychological. There's not a lot society can do about that.

I agree with you on that point. Men and women are different in some areas while in other areas they are both 100% equal. I posted this earlier:

Skinny Puppy wrote:Matters of the Brain: Why Men and Women Are So Different

Society can’t change certain behaviours/characteristics since they appear to be unchangeable. However, for some in society to pretend that no differences exist is simply living in a dream world. For those that do want everything equal then let them start with the Olympic games... I’m not being snarky, just realistic. (And that was not directed at you.)

<snip>

Doubtdispelled wrote:
Edit to add: Oh yes, I forgot to say.... Re the particular photo in question, I also find the female version slightly cringeworthy and a little amusing, or perhaps bemusing. I guess this might have something to do with my advanced age, but I also think that it might be that I, unfortunately for me, understand and dislike the mind-set of some of the men who would appreciate it.

I see your point, but will add my opinion to it.

Men are visual whereas women are more into literary stories where they conjure up the images on their own. One need only to look at the plethora of books aimed at women where sensual writing is designed to ignite the imagination. Nothing wrong with that of course, but since it’s in written form rather than pictures, it tends to fly under the radar.

While one can (might) condemn men for gawking at photos of females, it’s a two-way street as I mentioned in another post. The women who take money (large sums of it) to please these men are not much better. That’s why I asked who shoulders the blame, the drug buyer or the drug dealer. Neither side holds the high moral ground.

My wife likes soap operas and we tape them every day so she can watch them on the weekends. I don’t watch them, but if I’m in the living room while they’re on, it seems like almost every episode has a guy without a shirt on or only partially clothed. These shows are aimed at women and I doubt that the studios have a clothing shortage so they must be catering to what women want to see. Obviously that’s okay and healthy, but why would that not be considered to be gawking at males? (Rhetorical.)

In addition, every time I go to the supermarket I see magazines aimed at teenage girls. It’s almost a given that the magazines do not promote intelligence.

A Well-Rounded Girl? Sample Articles from Popular Teen Magazines
• “The Ultimate Get-a-Guy Guide”
• “Get a Bikini Butt”
• “Six Star Couples’ Secrets for Everlasting Love”
• “Dude Snagging Do’s and Don’ts”
• “Love Clues: Fifteen Ways to Make Him Want You Bad”
• “Get Gorgeous: A Survey of One Thousand Teens Reveals Seventy-five Favorite Beauty Products”
• “Find True Love: Twenty-four Crucial Clues to Snag Your Crush”

https://www.healthychildren.org/English/family-life/Media/Pages/Teen-Magazines-and-Their-Effect-on-Girls.aspx

Can that be changed? Yes, but will it? How does one go about getting girls to consider brain power more important than their image? Those magazines also feature shirtless boys so the girls are also looking. (Nothing wrong with that at all.)

My point in this entire thread has been consistent. Regardless of our personal feelings we all enter into a society that has set what it considers to be the standard way (within reason) that boys should act and the same for girls. Some things are definitely flexible and can be altered if enough people get behind it. Other things, as mentioned above, are simply the differences that men and women bring to the table either through psychological traits, which are inherent to each sex, or via evolution.

While I’m fully aware that my ‘toys for boys, toys for girls’ hits a sour note with many people, I didn’t make that decision out of the blue, I see society for what it is, and for what it expects; and to ensure my future kiddies are ready and able to deal with such a society, I plan to prepare them for it so that they are not unduly burdened with extra baggage that, at this point in time, will serve no useful purpose.

People often seem to confuse 'societal expectations' with what is good policy to go along with.

Religion is an example of this. You wouldn't want your children to be considered scum just because they don't go with the consensus view that there is a God, Hell is real, and Angels are all around us - would you?

proudfootz wrote:People often seem to confuse 'societal expectations' with what is good policy to go along with.

Religion is an example of this. You wouldn't want your children to be considered scum just because they don't go with the consensus view that there is a God, Hell is real, and Angels are all around us - would you?

That is totally irrelevant since it’s not dependent upon gender roles, which is what this discussion has been addressing.

Skinny Puppy wrote:

proudfootz wrote:People often seem to confuse 'societal expectations' with what is good policy to go along with.

Religion is an example of this. You wouldn't want your children to be considered scum just because they don't go with the consensus view that there is a God, Hell is real, and Angels are all around us - would you?

That is totally irrelevant since it’s not dependent upon gender roles, which is what this discussion has been addressing.

My bad. I thought 'societal expectations' was relevant.