OlivierK wrote:
Yes, put that bullshit argument about seeing to infinity away. I'm not sure why you feel the need to bring up such bullshit only to dismiss it, but hopefully not because I posted this:

OlivierK wrote:You can see curvature standing on a beach and looking at the horizon.

You'll note that I didn't say anything about seeing to infinity, or even to the other side of the sea, I simply noted that you can see the curvature of the earth; the horizon is visibly curved. Here, have a random tourism pic of a beach:

Fisheye lens, barrel distortion and plain ole astigmatism will do that.

Visual daytime observations show that the minimum altitude at which curvature of the horizon can be detected is at or slightly below 35,000 ft, providing that the field of view is wide (60°) and nearly cloudfree.

Continues here.

BlackBart wrote:

campermon wrote:

jamest wrote:Though in this instance, since it isn't philosophy, I'll gladly accept any reasonable retort to the contrary.

An experiment:
1.Choose a beach with easy access to a cliff.*
2.From the beach, observe the sun setting over the horizon.
3.As soon as the sun completely dips below the horizon, quickly run to the top of the cliff.
4.Record your observations.

I can recommend Son Bou beach in Menorca for this. There's a steep slope down to the beach. Mrs B and I ran down to the beach to catch the sunset and the sun went zip! below the horizon and we were like 'Oh!' So we ran back up the slope and caught the sunset again!

Ain't physics great!

Hermit wrote:Fisheye lens, barrel distortion and plain ole astigmatism will do that.

I guess barrel distortion would account for that photo...

Well, maybe I've got astigmatism, then (not that any has ever shown up on my eye tests). The horizon has always looked (very, very slightly) curved to me, from my usual beach parking spot on a headland about 20m up, with ~180 degrees of ocean view.

It has for everyone. No astigmatism here either.

OlivierK wrote:

Hermit wrote:Fisheye lens, barrel distortion and plain ole astigmatism will do that.

I guess barrel distortion would account for that photo...

Well, maybe I've got astigmatism, then (not that any has ever shown up on my eye tests). The horizon has always looked (very, very slightly) curved to me, from my usual beach parking spot on a headland about 20m up, with ~180 degrees of ocean view.

Did you read the article I provided a link to?

scott1328 wrote:

TopCat wrote:

rplatell wrote:Well he may not have succeeded in proving that the world is flat, but he sure did confirm the law of gravity.

No, he confirmed that the Earth continues to accelerate upwards at 1g.

What's the difference?

That's a really good question. The answer, on a local scale, is none:

https://www.thegreatcoursesdaily.com/ei ... -elevator/

OlivierK wrote:Can you not see the curvature? If not, copy the photo into an image editor, and resize the photo to a quarter of its original width, while maintaining the height, and it will become painfully obvious.

You can see the curvature of the horizon in that photo.

All that proves is that the camera optics are poor. You cannot see* the curvature of the earth by looking at the horizon from a height above sea level of a few feet.

Or even a lot more than that.

*ETA: Obviously you can infer the curvature by watching a ship disappear over the horizon. But that's not the same as looking at the apparently straight horizon and seeing a curve. Unless your eyes are astigmatic of course. We're assuming plane optics.

Hermit wrote:

OlivierK wrote:

Hermit wrote:Fisheye lens, barrel distortion and plain ole astigmatism will do that.

I guess barrel distortion would account for that photo...

Well, maybe I've got astigmatism, then (not that any has ever shown up on my eye tests). The horizon has always looked (very, very slightly) curved to me, from my usual beach parking spot on a headland about 20m up, with ~180 degrees of ocean view.

Did you read the article I provided a link to?

Yes, it's why I conceded that barrel distortion would account for the obvious curvature in the photo I posted, as the horizon is in the top half of the photo. That doesn't change the fact when I look at the horizon with a very wide field of view, that I perceive curvature. It may just be a sort of illusion, or self-induced response to knowing there is a tiny amount of curvature, or it may even be astigmatism at a level too small to require correction.

I don't know what causes me to experience the horizon as curved, hence the

campermon wrote:

scott1328 wrote:

TopCat wrote:

rplatell wrote:Well he may not have succeeded in proving that the world is flat, but he sure did confirm the law of gravity.

No, he confirmed that the Earth continues to accelerate upwards at 1g.

What's the difference?

That's a really good question. The answer, on a local scale, is none:

https://www.thegreatcoursesdaily.com/ei ... -elevator/

thank you

BlackBart wrote:

campermon wrote:

jamest wrote:Though in this instance, since it isn't philosophy, I'll gladly accept any reasonable retort to the contrary.

An experiment:
1.Choose a beach with easy access to a cliff.*
2.From the beach, observe the sun setting over the horizon.
3.As soon as the sun completely dips below the horizon, quickly run to the top of the cliff.
4.Record your observations.

I can recommend Son Bou beach in Menorca for this. There's a steep slope down to the beach. Mrs B and I ran down to the beach to catch the sunset and the sun went zip! below the horizon and we were like 'Oh!' So we ran back up the slope and caught the sunset again!

I can do something similar without even moving out of my garden chair. The back of my house faces West and in the Summer I like to sit in my garden and watch the sunset. As the Sun drops below the horizon, I can look at the block of flats across the street to the front of my house and the flats on the top floor are still bathed in sunshine.

Blackadder wrote:

BlackBart wrote:

campermon wrote:

jamest wrote:Though in this instance, since it isn't philosophy, I'll gladly accept any reasonable retort to the contrary.

An experiment:
1.Choose a beach with easy access to a cliff.*
2.From the beach, observe the sun setting over the horizon.
3.As soon as the sun completely dips below the horizon, quickly run to the top of the cliff.
4.Record your observations.

I can recommend Son Bou beach in Menorca for this. There's a steep slope down to the beach. Mrs B and I ran down to the beach to catch the sunset and the sun went zip! below the horizon and we were like 'Oh!' So we ran back up the slope and caught the sunset again!

I can do something similar without even moving out of my garden chair. The back of my house faces West and in the Summer I like to sit in my garden and watch the sunset. As the Sun drops below the horizon, I can look at the block of flats across the street to the front of my house and the flats on the top floor are still bathed in sunshine.

Adequately explained in flat earth theory.

campermon wrote:
Adequately Not explained in flat earth theory bollocks despite the hilarious efforts of loonies.

Reads better now.

jamest wrote:The idea that you could possibly see a flat earth for infinity at ground level (on the beach) is nuts. I'm not a flat Earther by the way, but even if the Earth was flat I seriously doubt you'd be able to see/detect [say] the Alps from England. So, at the very least, let's put that bad argument into room 101, along with the flat earth bullshit.

Durban harbour in foreground, Drakensberg in background. 160km distance.

That far edge looks a bit concave to me.

Alan B wrote:That far edge looks a bit concave to me.

It's the weight of the mountains pressing down on the earth....

Adco wrote:

jamest wrote:The idea that you could possibly see a flat earth for infinity at ground level (on the beach) is nuts. I'm not a flat Earther by the way, but even if the Earth was flat I seriously doubt you'd be able to see/detect [say] the Alps from England. So, at the very least, let's put that bad argument into room 101, along with the flat earth bullshit.

durban berg.jpg

Durban harbour in foreground, Drakensberg in background. 160km distance.

Can you show on this photo where the last RS gathering took place ?

If you dropped a nuke at the arrow, the campsite might not be there anymore.

jamest wrote:The idea that you could possibly see a flat earth for infinity at ground level (on the beach) is nuts. I'm not a flat Earther by the way, but even if the Earth was flat I seriously doubt you'd be able to see/detect [say] the Alps from England. So, at the very least, let's put that bad argument into room 101, along with the flat earth bullshit.

If the earth were flat (planar), what would cause the patterns of tectonic features we see? Go directly to the Expanding Earth thread. In other words, if the earth were flat, where could we keep the mountains?

jamest wrote:The idea that you could possibly see a flat earth for infinity at ground level (on the beach) is nuts. I'm not a flat Earther by the way, but even if the Earth was flat I seriously doubt you'd be able to see/detect [say] the Alps from England. So, at the very least, let's put that bad argument into room 101, along with the flat earth bullshit.

A laser plus a mirror come to mind here.