Fortune cookie philosophy...

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Fortune cookie philosophy...

#1  Postby PensivePenny » Dec 09, 2016 2:56 pm

Found this little nugget in a fortune cookie, passing for "wisdom."


Your mind understands what it has been taught; your heart, what's true.


While I don't give one iota credence to the claim, and even disregarding the heart "understands" anything argument, I do think the above is a common belief of many people. Assuming the heart can actually do more than pump blood, using it as a symbol for our feelings, which is how I understand the pseudowisdom above, then the fortune (and by extension the people who believe such nonsense) exalts "feelings" above "knowledge."

If a creationist were to subscribe to this belief, it would certainly explain the behavior of the fundies. Perhaps, the above premise may even be said to supersede the premise, "god exists," since many religionists will cite they "feel" god's presence.

And further,"Your mind understands what it has been taught," implies by omission, that what you know, has all been taught to you. It excludes that our minds can make their own firsthand discoveries and even confirm what we were taught.

I'm not making a mountain out of a fortune cookie here, rather pointing out that I think there are a lot of people (few members here, I imagine) who are in full agreement with what the fortune cookie said.
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Re: Fortune cookie philosophy...

#2  Postby solazy » Dec 10, 2016 12:53 pm

The heart chakra does indeed rule your perception of love and truth.
If out of balance you need help.
http://www.puramaryam.de/trueheart.html

Are they kidding...stones have chakras?
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Re: Fortune cookie philosophy...

#3  Postby PensivePenny » Dec 10, 2016 1:19 pm

solazy wrote:The heart chakra does indeed rule your perception of love and truth.
If out of balance you need help.
http://www.puramaryam.de/trueheart.html

Are they kidding...stones have chakras?


Hey, why not? No less absurd than people having them.
Evolution saddens me. In an environment where irrational thinking is protected, the disparity in the population rate of creationists vs that of rational thinkers, equates to a creationist win. Let's remove warning labels from products as an equalizer.
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Re: Fortune cookie philosophy...

#4  Postby crank » Dec 10, 2016 4:05 pm

solazy wrote:

Are they kidding...stones have chakras?


Yeah, I think Bill Wyman would pick a set up for a song or two back in the 80s's.

At some point, we will be able to alter our brains pretty much to an arbitrary degree, probably transfer them to machines. '
What will emotions mean when they are something you can twiddle a knob and make anything you want?
“When you're born into this world, you're given a ticket to the freak show. If you're born in America you get a front row seat.”
-George Carlin, who died 2008. Ha, now we have human centipedes running the place
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Re: Fortune cookie philosophy...

#5  Postby igorfrankensteen » Dec 10, 2016 9:47 pm

Since this seems to be a sort of poll, sort of accusation thread, I'll report in that I think the fortune cookie saying is classic "cheap knock-off wisdom." Not worth the effort to take seriously.

If instead, this is just a cutesy, backhanded way to accuse a majority of people here of preferring emotion to logic (which, by the way, is NOT what I took the cheap knockoff thing to have said), then no, that's not me either.
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Re: Fortune cookie philosophy...

#6  Postby PensivePenny » Dec 10, 2016 11:57 pm

igorfrankensteen wrote: If instead, this is just a cutesy, backhanded way to accuse a majority of people here of preferring emotion to logic (which, by the way, is NOT what I took the cheap knockoff thing to have said), then no, that's not me either.


You mean "backhanded way" for ME "to accuse...?" Certainly not! I sincerely hope no one thought I was insulting.

Actually, I think things like the "fortune" are indicative of popular acceptance, perhaps widespread, commonly agreed with. I consider that, like any product, it will no longer exist if people won't buy it. They'll just stop making it. I imagine "fortunes" for fortune cookies probably go through some kind of basic approval process, a microcosm of a focus group or something.

So, the fact that this fortune was pulled from a cookie, to me, is evidence that some people find the sentiment palatable... perhaps more than a few people. It reminded me of religionists who tend to give more weight to heart felt matters than reasoned ones. Personally, I find that concept incomprehensible. Just my opinion.
Evolution saddens me. In an environment where irrational thinking is protected, the disparity in the population rate of creationists vs that of rational thinkers, equates to a creationist win. Let's remove warning labels from products as an equalizer.
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Re: Fortune cookie philosophy...

#7  Postby solazy » Dec 11, 2016 3:46 pm

PensivePenny wrote:
solazy wrote:The heart chakra does indeed rule your perception of love and truth.
If out of balance you need help.
http://www.puramaryam.de/trueheart.html

Are they kidding...stones have chakras?


Hey, why not? No less absurd than people having them.

It appears that meditating on a green stone (sacred to the heart chakra) can influence your heart, and therefore your truth chakra. The whirling energy in the stone somehow transfers to your heart, while leaving the energy within the stone intact.
The first law of thermodynamics is not broken as the stone's energy is replenished from the cosmos.
I must give it a try. I don't live too far from an Ayurveda centre (Kinver, Staffordshire) where the stones are made.
While I'm there I'll ask about my dosha. I'm a vata. But do I need to change my body shape? It looks good to me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nv1L1nqEitc
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Re: Fortune cookie philosophy...

#8  Postby PensivePenny » Dec 11, 2016 4:48 pm

In our religion, we'd say you have a POE body type.
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Re: Fortune cookie philosophy...

#9  Postby igorfrankensteen » Dec 11, 2016 5:17 pm

PensivePenny wrote:
igorfrankensteen wrote: If instead, this is just a cutesy, backhanded way to accuse a majority of people here of preferring emotion to logic (which, by the way, is NOT what I took the cheap knockoff thing to have said), then no, that's not me either.


You mean "backhanded way" for ME "to accuse...?" Certainly not! I sincerely hope no one thought I was insulting.

Actually, I think things like the "fortune" are indicative of popular acceptance, perhaps widespread, commonly agreed with. I consider that, like any product, it will no longer exist if people won't buy it. They'll just stop making it. I imagine "fortunes" for fortune cookies probably go through some kind of basic approval process, a microcosm of a focus group or something.

So, the fact that this fortune was pulled from a cookie, to me, is evidence that some people find the sentiment palatable... perhaps more than a few people. It reminded me of religionists who tend to give more weight to heart felt matters than reasoned ones. Personally, I find that concept incomprehensible. Just my opinion.


I wasn't accusing you or anyone else of anything. Just noting that I have seen the "thought" so stumblingly presented in the cookie version, many times, and usually much more directly. It's romantic in a way, cerebral in a way, but invariably not much more than self-indulgent twaddle, no matter how cleverly it is phrased.

I don't think that it's so much the case that lots of people have a deep sense of belief in this sort of thing, more that it's harmless and warm sounding, so they smile and eat the cookie.

Your notion that somehow, fortune cookie manufacturers monitor feedback from individual customers, concerning their "wise sayings," and then alter them accordingly, is, I think a little on the fantasy end of things.

Really, I don't think anyone notices what's in the sayings, unless someone sneaks in porn or something.
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Re: Fortune cookie philosophy...

#10  Postby PensivePenny » Dec 11, 2016 5:36 pm

igorfrankensteen wrote: Your notion that somehow, fortune cookie manufacturers monitor feedback from individual customers, concerning their "wise sayings," and then alter them accordingly, is, I think a little on the fantasy end of things.

You greatly exaggerate what I said. I was merely implying that these sayings undoubtedly go through some kind of vetting or approval process. A committee of two employees, old proverbs (that is known to make people feel good), even a genuine focus group. Oh, and you may find this interesting, apparently they DO actually get feedback from customers and pull fortunes from the database. "Who Writes Fortune Cookies"

Really, I don't think anyone notices what's in the sayings, unless someone sneaks in porn or something.


:oops: :lol:
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Re: Fortune cookie philosophy...

#11  Postby scott1328 » Dec 13, 2016 12:57 am

Perhaps the wisdom of this particular fortune cookie is the observation that beliefs that are endorsed by our emotions are held much more strongly than facts taught to us that are foreign to our personal experience?
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Re: Fortune cookie philosophy...

#12  Postby PensivePenny » Dec 13, 2016 1:16 am

What a thoughtful, concise response, scott (Tim).

So, it's an error in judgement about what is and isn't verifiable, perhaps, the inability to distinguish between verifiable knowledge and alien abduction. I hadn't looked at it from that perspective. :thumbup:
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Re: Fortune cookie philosophy...

#13  Postby scott1328 » Dec 13, 2016 1:45 am

You are "new" here so I suppose I should forgive the assholishness.
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Re: Fortune cookie philosophy...

#14  Postby PensivePenny » Dec 13, 2016 2:19 am

I apologize. I can be an asshole, but wasn't with regard to your comment. I was actually being sincere.
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Re: Fortune cookie philosophy...

#15  Postby scott1328 » Dec 13, 2016 2:22 am

I suppose I didn't understand your comment.
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Re: Fortune cookie philosophy...

#16  Postby PensivePenny » Dec 13, 2016 2:33 am

No, it's okay. I understand how you read it. It does sound like it could be sarcasm.

Compliments don't translate well on a site of skeptics, I suppose.

Anyway, no "assholishness" intended :cheers:
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Re: Fortune cookie philosophy...

#17  Postby tolman » Jan 06, 2017 1:32 am

PensivePenny wrote:No, it's okay. I understand how you read it. It does sound like it could be sarcasm.

Compliments don't translate well on a site of skeptics, I suppose.

I often find that when I'm being genuine in text, I wonder if someone who maybe knew me a little, but not well enough, might think I was being sarcastic.

But I guess that's a cross one must bear when one's age and/or nationality militates against telegraphing reality by using emoticons or an unsubtly-placed 'not!'.
I don't do sarcasm smileys, but someone as bright as you has probably figured that out already.
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Re: Fortune cookie philosophy...

#18  Postby archibald » Jan 06, 2017 11:07 am

PensivePenny wrote:Anyway, no "assholishness" intended :cheers:


Right. That's clearly a symbolic image of you drinking the blood of your internet victims. Your evil intent knows no bounds.


No seriously, I think it has been common 'wisdom' since ancient history that the heart can feel/know things, such as for example being in love, or other emotions. To me, it's not entirely ridiculous and I might even say I have experienced it.

Thinking that a certain feeling is located in the heart might be not much different to thinking that a pain is located in an injured finger. This may be, probably, almost certainly is, an illusion. Similarly, the idea that there is a 'you' in your brain is probably a more sophisticated illusion, but that's arguably a whole other topic. :)

That said, I believe there are limited systems of neurons (not the same as brain cells) in the heart which communicate with the brain.

I think it's fair to say that our bodies are made up of interactive systems and that the brain-heart two-way communicating system is one of these. I believe the idea is that for example 'messages' from the brain might affect the rhythmic patterns in the heart and in turn the rhythmic patterns result in feedback messages to the brain which affect brain functioning (inhibiting or enhancing certain cognitive functions when under stress, or falling in love, etc).

The woo comes into it when some people (eg a guru or someone writing a fortune for a cookie) try to infer that the heart thinks, feels or 'knows' like the brain.

But if we define 'thinking' as merely the cognitive or computational processing of electro-chemical (or indeed other types of) signals/information (which would be a possible definition, imo) then the whole body thinks in concert, not just within itself but as part of a wider external system involving the world.

That last part gets us to the philosophical position of externalism:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Externalism

and extended cognition:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extended_cognition

To which I tend to subscribe. :)
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Re: Fortune cookie philosophy...

#19  Postby laklak » Jan 07, 2017 5:37 am

There were times in my life when a little fortune cookie wisdom would have come in handy. I can remember a time when "stop being such a dick or she'll leave you" might have helped. Or "tomorrow morning buy all the Microsoft stock you can get your hands on".
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Re: Fortune cookie philosophy...

#20  Postby PensivePenny » Jan 07, 2017 5:13 pm

Sounds like listening to country music and an occasional phone call to Meryl Lynch could have accomplished the same?
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