Mosque in Toronto welcomes LGBT for Ramadan

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Mosque in Toronto welcomes LGBT for Ramadan

#1  Postby CIS » Jun 12, 2016 4:32 am

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/unity-mosque-peace-iftar-toronto-1.3630935

A mosque in Toronto is creating a name for itself for welcoming the LGBT community, as well as to people of all faiths.

Founder El-Farouk Khaki said it was important for him and his co-founders to create the Unity Mosque, or the El-Tawhid Juma Circle, as a space that is welcoming to anyone.

"There's a notion, I think, out there that Muslim spaces are not welcoming, that they're not inclusive, that they don't embrace non-Muslims, or that women or LGBTQI people are somehow not welcome," said Khaki, who spoke to CBC's Matt Galloway on Metro Morning. "And so this is an intentional space designed to actually bring everybody into it."
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Re: Mosque in Toronto welcomes LGBT for Ramadan

#2  Postby Weaver » Jun 12, 2016 4:49 am

Good for them.
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Re: Mosque in Toronto welcomes LGBT for Ramadan

#3  Postby NineBerry » Jun 12, 2016 8:40 am

Islam+
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Re: Mosque in Toronto welcomes LGBT for Ramadan

#4  Postby tuco » Jun 12, 2016 10:11 am

First time I hear about something like this.
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Re: Mosque in Toronto welcomes LGBT for Ramadan

#5  Postby LucidFlight » Jun 12, 2016 11:39 am

Let's not forget asexual and curious.
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Re: Mosque in Toronto welcomes LGBT for Ramadan

#6  Postby I'm With Stupid » Jun 12, 2016 4:38 pm

Well that's put the crosshairs firmly on him then. Islamists don't like Muslims that show that it can be compatible with liberal values.
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Re: Mosque in Toronto welcomes LGBT for Ramadan

#7  Postby crank » Jun 12, 2016 9:42 pm

They'd get a lot more adherents if they changed the name to Ramitin.
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Re: Mosque in Toronto welcomes LGBT for Ramadan

#8  Postby aliihsanasl » Jun 12, 2016 10:44 pm

Only in west, Islam is more tolerant and peaceful away from its homeland.
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Re: Mosque in Toronto welcomes LGBT for Ramadan

#9  Postby tuco » Jun 12, 2016 11:29 pm

It seems to be important question, in public discourse, whether Islam is compatible with the West, liberal democracy.
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Re: Mosque in Toronto welcomes LGBT for Ramadan

#10  Postby aliihsanasl » Jun 12, 2016 11:34 pm

tuco wrote:It seems to be important question, in public discourse, whether Islam is compatible with the West, liberal democracy.


Can Christianity be compatible with any modern society if they follow its orders ?
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Re: Mosque in Toronto welcomes LGBT for Ramadan

#11  Postby tuco » Jun 12, 2016 11:44 pm

The West is of Christian heritage, so that in my eyes answers the question.

Islam, its traditions, are foreign to majority and there is even difference, I am lead to believe, between Islamic communities and their relation to society in the US, the EU and in this case Canada known for its ability to practice multi-culturalism.

If they follow its orders .. is true believer argument. To that classic says: There was only one Christian and he died on the cross.
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Re: Mosque in Toronto welcomes LGBT for Ramadan

#12  Postby aliihsanasl » Jun 13, 2016 12:06 am

tuco wrote:The West is of Christian heritage, so that in my eyes answers the question.

Islam, its traditions, are foreign to majority and there is even difference, I am lead to believe, between Islamic communities and their relation to society in the US, the EU and in this case Canada known for its ability to practice multi-culturalism.

If they follow its orders .. is true believer argument. To that classic says: There was only one Christian and he died on the cross.


Western way of life ( people who prefer to live a modern, peaceful and tolerant life ) is something came into being with secularism which is a result of centuries of Christian church's pressure.
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Re: Mosque in Toronto welcomes LGBT for Ramadan

#13  Postby tuco » Jun 13, 2016 12:25 am

We are getting off-topic, however, I do not see what I called Christian heritage of the West being controversial nor not applicable.

Nobody, I am aware of, is for example having referendums/debates over Christian architecture being build in their cities. Nor there is problem with shaking hands or covering face. Celebrating Christmas. IMO its the traditions, with religious background, that conflict most. I mean what is to be Muslim or Christian? If they follow orders .. In the OP case, do they or do they not follow orders when they open mosque to LGBT? And we will be here forever.

Indeed, despite being of some heritage, society changes and indeed towards secularisation. This is due to economy, education, democracy and public discourse, globalization etc. So the question probably is, is Islam capable of lets say reforming.
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Re: Mosque in Toronto welcomes LGBT for Ramadan

#14  Postby aliihsanasl » Jun 13, 2016 12:44 am

tuco wrote:We are getting off-topic, however, I do not see what I called Christian heritage of the West being controversial nor not applicable.

Nobody, I am aware of, is for example having referendums/debates over Christian architecture being build in their cities. Nor there is problem with shaking hands or covering face. Celebrating Christmas. IMO its the traditions, with religious background, that conflict most. I mean what is to be Muslim or Christian? If they follow orders .. In the OP case, do they or do they not follow orders when they open mosque to LGBT? And we will be here forever.

Indeed, despite being of some heritage, society changes and indeed towards secularisation. This is due to economy, education, democracy and public discourse, globalization etc. So the question probably is, is Islam capable of lets say reforming.


Religions dont reform because this means losing power of religious people. I dont believe that Christian Church would ever accept secularism if their opinion would be asked. There is a strange dilemma here I wonder if any foreigners can see, Islamic scholars never caused suffering as much as their Christian colleagues caused to their own people. But its step by step starting in Islamic world too.

The reason why I think Islam had less pressure on Muslims is because mainstream Islam forbids any high status among Muslims.

For this reason Muslims are like suffering from a light flu, some even dont accept that they're ill. They're not in bed but sick all the time.
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Re: Mosque in Toronto welcomes LGBT for Ramadan

#15  Postby crank » Jun 13, 2016 2:36 pm

tuco wrote:We are getting off-topic, however, I do not see what I called Christian heritage of the West being controversial nor not applicable.

Nobody, I am aware of, is for example having referendums/debates over Christian architecture being build in their cities. Nor there is problem with shaking hands or covering face. Celebrating Christmas. IMO its the traditions, with religious background, that conflict most. I mean what is to be Muslim or Christian? If they follow orders .. In the OP case, do they or do they not follow orders when they open mosque to LGBT? And we will be here forever.

Indeed, despite being of some heritage, society changes and indeed towards secularisation. This is due to economy, education, democracy and public discourse, globalization etc. So the question probably is, is Islam capable of lets say reforming.

Mentioning "following orders" exposes the issue, which orders? You can't follow all of them, they self-contradict. Most of the wars stemming from christianity were between christians, most of the violence in the muslim world is between muslims. They're all 'following orders'. When texts are so vast, so vague, so varied, you can get them to say whatever you want.
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Re: Mosque in Toronto welcomes LGBT for Ramadan

#16  Postby VazScep » Jul 03, 2016 7:48 am

Who We Are.

Laury Silvers there is apparently an expert on Sufism, which is the esoteric form of Islam. I once attended a Sufi celebration, and thought they were all just a bunch of hippies. I remember that one of the performers on stage was a Jew, and I get the impression that these folk probably have more in common with the average Kabbalist than with the average Muslim. It's been suggested that if there is one form of Islam that is likely to be easily adaptable to Western secularism, it's this one.
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Re: Mosque in Toronto welcomes LGBT for Ramadan

#17  Postby NineBerry » Jul 03, 2016 9:45 am

Sufism in itself is quite diverse. And if you go by the numbers, Sufis are the average Muslims.
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Re: Mosque in Toronto welcomes LGBT for Ramadan

#18  Postby viocjit » Jul 11, 2016 3:49 am

NineBerry wrote:Sufism in itself is quite diverse. And if you go by the numbers, Sufis are the average Muslims.


The majority of Westerners forget that Islam is divided in many branches and subbranches as Christianity and Judaism are.
In Judaism you can find :
1.Hasidic judaism (A denomination of Rabinic Judaism)
2.Cabala (Word to name all kind of Judaism mysticism)
3.Karaite Judaism (A religious movement who believe that Tanakh [Hebrew : תַּנַ"ךְ] is the alone supreme authority. This is the canonical collection of Jewish text)
etc...


In Christianity you can find :
[i]1.Roman Catholicism (Divided among cafeteria Catholic and traditional Roman Catholic against Second Vatican Ecumenical Council [Latin : Concilium Oecumenicum Vaticanum Secundum] etc...)
2.Protestantism (There are subranches like Calvinism , Lutheranism etc...)
3.Orthodox Catholicism (Divided among cafeteria Orthodox Catholic and traditionalist etc...)
etc...

In Islam you can find :
1.Sunni Islam (Divided in four main branches called madhab [Arabic : مذهب])
2.Shia Islam (Zaidiyyah , Isma'ilism , Imamah etc...)
3.Sufism (Islam mysticism. There are many orders)
etc...

Why did you write that if we go by the numbers Sufis are the average Muslim ?
Do you have statistics about this topic ?
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Re: Mosque in Toronto welcomes LGBT for Ramadan

#19  Postby NineBerry » Jul 11, 2016 11:27 pm

Sufism is not a separate sect. It exists in Sunni Islam and in Shia Islam. Most muslim cultures are heavily influenced by Sufi thought. It is hard to make clear separations, but Sufis are certainly not a minority in Islam, but a major branch.
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Re: Mosque in Toronto welcomes LGBT for Ramadan

#20  Postby Ven. Kwan Tam Woo » Jul 12, 2016 5:09 am

CIS wrote:http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/unity-mosque-peace-iftar-toronto-1.3630935

A mosque in Toronto is creating a name for itself for welcoming the LGBT community, as well as to people of all faiths.

Founder El-Farouk Khaki said it was important for him and his co-founders to create the Unity Mosque, or the El-Tawhid Juma Circle, as a space that is welcoming to anyone.

"There's a notion, I think, out there that Muslim spaces are not welcoming, that they're not inclusive, that they don't embrace non-Muslims, or that women or LGBTQI people are somehow not welcome," said Khaki, who spoke to CBC's Matt Galloway on Metro Morning. "And so this is an intentional space designed to actually bring everybody into it."


Reading through to the end of that article (the best stuff always seems to be near the end when it comes to news articles), I found this:

Khaki is also an immigration lawyer and the founder of Salaam, a support group for LGBT Muslims.


So it's pretty safe to say that Khaki himself is a member of the Alphabet Soup Society, which makes this story much less impressive than it first appears. I mean, can you honestly say that you'd be impressed if a gay Christian founded a church that welcomed gays?

Come back to us when you find a mainstream traditional mosque leader doing something like this, then we might actually have genuine cause to be impressed (although given Submissionist doctrine on homosexuality, I'm not holding my breath). There is no such thing as a green rainbow.
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