Sityl wrote:"He wants to test us" - If he's omniscient, then he already knows the results before the test begins.
"Evil comes from demons" - and who created those, again?
"In order for free will to mean anything, evil must exist." - sounds like free will is a pretty evil invention, then. Who created free will again?

The hubris required to pretend that an all powerful being sets rules for you to follow and then cares whether or not you'll follow them is mind-boggling.

To be honest. Determinism and free will are not exclusive apparently. I've read something I think was written by Antony Flew saying that God could have created a compatibilist universe.

AtheismIsIrrational, is there evil and free will in paradise?

Rumraket wrote:AtheismIsIrrational, is there evil and free will in paradise?

To Orthodox Christians there is free will, but evil. So, this begs the question. Since, God can actualize a world with free moral creatures who always commit good in heaven. Why couldn't he do the same for Earth?

AtheismIsIrrational wrote:

Rumraket wrote:AtheismIsIrrational, is there evil and free will in paradise?

To Orthodox Christians there is free will, but evil. So, this begs the question. Since, God can actualize a world with free moral creatures who always commit good in heaven. Why couldn't he do the same for Earth?

Yeah that's my question.

AtheismIsIrrational wrote:

Rumraket wrote:AtheismIsIrrational, is there evil and free will in paradise?

To Orthodox Christians there is free will, but evil. So, this begs the question. Since, God can actualize a world with free moral creatures who always commit good in heaven. Why couldn't he do the same for Earth?

'cause he kicks 'em out of heaven when they turn bad?

stijndeloose wrote:

AtheismIsIrrational wrote:

Rumraket wrote:AtheismIsIrrational, is there evil and free will in paradise?

To Orthodox Christians there is free will, but evil. So, this begs the question. Since, God can actualize a world with free moral creatures who always commit good in heaven. Why couldn't he do the same for Earth?

'cause he kicks 'em out of heaven when they turn bad?

Then there's evil in heaven. Making the whole notion of heaven pointless. It would have been easier for Christians to just say you reincarnate after you die.

AtheismIsIrrational wrote:Then there's evil in heaven. Making the whole notion of heaven pointless.

Exactly. So the whole concept doesn't make much sense, does it?

AtheismIsIrrational wrote:It would have been easier for Christians to just say you reincarnate after you die.

Heh. Sure, only that would be one more assertion they don't have any evidence of whatsoever.

AtheismIsIrrational wrote:

stijndeloose wrote:

AtheismIsIrrational wrote:

Rumraket wrote:AtheismIsIrrational, is there evil and free will in paradise?

To Orthodox Christians there is free will, but evil. So, this begs the question. Since, God can actualize a world with free moral creatures who always commit good in heaven. Why couldn't he do the same for Earth?

'cause he kicks 'em out of heaven when they turn bad?

Then there's evil in heaven. Making the whole notion of heaven pointless. It would have been easier for Christians to just say you reincarnate after you die.

It's really very simple. You were dead before you were born, and you're dead when you die. There's no need to worry about it, just make the most of the time you have here. It certainly passes quickly enough.

AtheismIsIrrational wrote:There is no God.

That's a novel approach for a theist!

LOL

Agrippina wrote:Come one guys, don't be mean to the youngling.

You are quite a sweetheart, Aggi. You should be in charge of the universe.

Ironclad wrote:

Agrippina wrote:Come one guys, don't be mean to the youngling.

You are quite a sweetheart, Aggi. You should be in charge of the universe.

who says I'm not!

AtheismIsIrrational wrote:There is no God.

Well that's a fairly spectacular volte face, I must admit. I'd really love to know how this came about.

Lion IRC wrote:LOL

Ah, another of your usual contributions. Bereft of content.

Obvious Poe is obvious.

Calilasseia wrote:

Lion IRC wrote:LOL

Ah, another of your usual contributions. Bereft of content.

Thanks for going out of your way to reply.

It 's called due diligence. Something I rarely see from supernaturalists.

Obvious Poe is obvious.

I dunno, benefit of the doubt from me. His ideas have been roundly challenged and the things (I assume) he has been told (by religious teachers) as correct are really quite weak, when examined properly. All ex-theists must have travelled this path, when they've had their own ideas challenged, then self-examined.
I'm with Aggi, I think it's important to let the man have some space to think and get back to you/us, rather than quote posts he made early yesterday and demolish them repeatedly. If he isn't a poe the extra hits might just just make him dig his heels in. Like an ardent creationist does.

Ironclad wrote:

Obvious Poe is obvious.

I dunno, benefit of the doubt from me. His ideas have been roundly challenged and the things (I assume) he has been told (by religious teachers) as correct are really quite weak, when examined properly. All ex-theists must have travelled this path, when they've had their own ideas challenged, then self-examined.
I'm with Aggi, I think it's important to let the man have some space to think and get back to you/us, rather than quote posts he made early yesterday and demolish them repeatedly. If he isn't a poe the extra hits might just just make him dig his heels in. Like an ardent creationist does.

Come on, now. I've NEVER seen a hardcore Bible-thumping atheist-hater suddenly become an atheist in less than 24 hours. Have you? The main reason I call Poe is that these types of people don't use logic and reason in their defense of their theism, and they are so obviously dead-set in their beliefs that no amount of logic and reason will change their minds. What do you think the odds are that someone like Kent Hovind or Ray Comfort would suddenly begin to employ logic and reason to reject theism, and so much so that they would proclaim that they are now atheists? Not bloody likely!

True. But I can't see him as a Comfort-strength character either; he hit us up with a bunch of the usual, watched them being pulled apart, then had to leave - feeling somewhat uncomfortable.
Hey, maybe I got poe-ed, but he's fairly young.

Ironclad wrote:True. But I can't see him as a Comfort-strength character either; he hit us up with a bunch of the usual, watched them being pulled apart, then had to leave - feeling somewhat uncomfortable.
Hey, maybe I got poe-ed, but he's fairly young.

He's got 11 years on you, apparently.