The Ubuntu thread

[rEvolutionist]

Ah Rev? that sounds very much like a faulty ram chip. Of course it could be your cpu's heatsink wasn't attached correctly, ditto for the video card.

I had one computer where the heat would 'walk' the video card out of the agp slot and the computer would freeze.

[o/t] I chuckle ridiculously every time I read your sig. Alnilam is good value. [/o/t]

That he is. I haven't seen him around much lately though...

As for the ram or heatsink, there's not problem there as they work fine with Windoze. Perhaps the Ram settings themselves don't work well with Ubuntu, but I wouldn't know the best way to go about fiddling with them.

[rEvolutionist]

"Super-fast and great-looking, Ubuntu is a secure, intuitive operating system that powers desktops, servers, netbooks and laptops. Ubuntu is, and always will be, absolutely free."

People here are showing interest in Ubuntu, but there seems to be a few things stopping people from giving it a try when actually it's perfect for anyone who's sick of windows or even just curious.


Firstly to remove a preconception
"I'd switch if.." Completely unnecessary, you can have Windows and safely run Ubuntu as well. That means you can still use your windows programs whilst having the opportunity to try out Ubuntu Linux to decide if you prefer it and it's huge range of programs. Many Ubuntu users switch between the two, using Windows only when they need it.

Just don't forget to FIRST download instructions on how to find your Windows OS boot after the Ubuntu boot loader wipes any trace of it.

How can I try Ubuntu?
There are two ways. The first I recommend is using "Wubi" or the Windows-based Ubuntu Installer. It's a program which allows you to install Ubuntu as though it was a program for Windows. You just download the installer, so there is no need to burn CD's; a godsend for those who hate doing that. "Wubi keeps most of the files in one folder, and if you do not like it, you can simply uninstall it as any other application."

Make sure you've got a fast box. Old computers ain't going to handle very well running a big operating system inside a big operating system

The other way is to download a CD image from the Ubuntu website and burn it to a CD. You can then run Linux directly off of the CD. Your computer must be set to boot from CD's. This has limitations, including that each time you reboot your data is lost and that Ubuntu will not run at it's full speed.

Exactly. Crap idea. It's only useful for testing an installation first.

I don't recommend this unless you plan on install Ubuntu onto it's own partition on your hard disk.

DON'T DO THIS unless you first download and print instructions on how to find your Windows OS and reference it in the Ubuntu boot loader.

How do I install software?
Easy peasy: https://help.ubuntu.com/10.04/add-appli ... index.html

No, not easy, as far as i'm concerned, and I'm an IT geek with training in unix.

I need help!
There is a huge amount of documentation for Ubuntu here: https://help.ubuntu.com/

If you need any help, post here and I'm sure there are Ubuntu users here who can support you.

Unless it's too hard a question and you'll never get an answer. Tell me, has anyone solved the problem that a number of users get (including myself), that causes the whole system to freeze when presumably running under heavy ram conditions? I've seen the question posted all over the net, and no one has come up with a solution. In fact it's the same for all Linux distributions. So many problems that have NO answer. Ubuntu just happens to be the least bad of all the distro's out there.

first off, the point about windows boot is complete bull. if installed on a machine with windows on it, it adds this to the boot manager and is easily accessed through grub.

Wrong. Just google it and you'll see heaps and heaps of cases of Windows boot disappearing. And the solution to it is also not easy to find. It happened to me, and of course I couldn't find the answer very easily as Firefox causes Ubuntu to crash on my machine within usually about a minute of opening it (firefox).

if you want difficult try reinstating grub after windows wipes the boot manager. that took ages, whereas the most time it takes in linux is to add the headings in grub.conf (not done this in grub 2, so its a different file name, but effectively the same)

I agree. But just because windows is shit, is no excuse for Linux to behave erratically.

running off a cd is a slow method of doing it, sure, but it allows you to have a test without committing to anything

Problem for me is that Ununtu and Kubuntu run fine off CD, but crash when installed. I suspect the slowness of the CD read allows the ram time to sort its shit out and run smoothly.

as for complaining about synaptic/software center > how is that hard. personally I find it far easier to get the programs and install then with "sudo apt-get install xxx" than to open the web browser locate the software, download, run AV to check it, then click to install.

What about when you have to manually edit the source list to tell it to find your software? How many newbies do you think can handle this? And that's supposed to be the beauty of Ubuntu. It's supposed to be a windows replacement. And what about compiling software from binaries and tarballs? No newbie should have to go through that shit.

[rEvolutionist]

I ran Xubuntu on my old lappy - p3 700 with 256mb ram - with no problems. I was actually happy with it for web browsing, email, watching videos and playing music.. what 95% of computer users do with their computers.

Which distro do you think is the "best" and why?

Sorry, I should have quoted. It was a respond to this claim.

In fact it's the same for all Linux distributions. So many problems that have NO answer. Ubuntu just happens to be the least bad of all the distro's out there.

Well that was meant in terms of it's usability as a windows replacement. THere's certainly plenty of good Linux distros out there that serve specific purposes, but none of them so far match the usability of windows (as shit as it is). Ubuntu is getting closer with ever release, but I wonder if the problem is that the linux community is still dominated by geeks with aspergers who can't get their heads around how ordinary non-techie folk think.

[rEvolutionist]

Any idea how to get any sound out of a Xonar DS on Ubuntu?

Its a common theme it seems whenever i try any Linux variant. I have yet to persuade any of them to make any noise whatsoever. This is one area where each Windows OS i have used seems to just work out of the box whereas i spent hours fiddling and ultimately getting nowhere on Linux based OS's.

Exactly. The same can be said for wireless. Linux is renowned for having wireless troubles. Although, I've had no trouble with (K)Ubuntu from about Jaunty onwards. But virtually all the other distro's I've tried (probably near on 30) on my old laptop don't work with wireless straight out of the box, and most of them don't work at all even with all the various work-arounds listed online. I've probably only got about 5 or so to work with wireless.

[rEvolutionist]

OK, so now that i've had a good rant, I should say something positive.

Overall, I have been disappointed with Linux and the ability to get proper answers for common problems. But as it turns out, even though Ubuntu causes my desktop to crash, it is one of only about 5 or so that run on my old 1998 IBM thinkpad. In fact, it works perfectly out of the box. The problem is of course that with only 160 odd meg of ram, and about a 1 MHz processor ( ) it's unusable. Finally after trying every other distro under the sun, I just did a minimal command-line install of Ubuntu and then installed fluxbox on top and a few apps for websurfing and now it runs pretty nicely. (EDIT: although, I had to do some fiddling to get wireless to work)

[pcCoder]

I don't know why but I don't really care about Ubuntu myself. It's great if it gets others at least knowing that there are alternatives, but I just don't use it myself. I've used Debian for a while now, and some other distros before that as far back as to RedHat 5.2. I just find that I like plain Debian better, even though Ubuntu is based on Debian.

[Paul1]

I thought this was a characteristic of harddrives themselves, not the OS, thus why SSDs are a nice upgrade besides the speed. Is automatic defragmentation part of the OS?

All filesystems should be capable of splitting files when there are no contiguous blocks available, and I'm not convinced Linux filesystems do anything that special compared to NTFS as far as defragging goes.

A word of warning anyway: don't talk about the Linux filesystem. Linux has several stable single-machine filesystems. I can choose from 6 in my sources: ext2, ext3, ext4 reiserfs, jfs, xfs. On Ubuntu, you probably don't have a choice, since it will have been made for you by the Ubuntu maintainers, but Ubuntu and Linux are not the same thing.

I know, but I refer to them all really. They aren't fragment free, but they are designed a lot more carefully to reduce fragmentation, especially ext4, than NTFS or FAT. There are plans to introduce an on-line defragmenter for ext4.

The performance and fragmentation results of ext4 and other "Linux" filesystem types outweigh the performance of NTFS from benchmark tests that I have seen.

Otherwise we'd all just use NTFS...


I'd say that I've touched the console minimally, so it's not so necessary now-a-days. There is a "Force Quit" applet which can be added to the panels. Right click on the top bar -> "Add To Panel" -> Look for the "Force Quit" applet. It does the same thing, but all in a nice little user interface.


I've never had a successful Ubuntu upgrade and always reinstall. No idea why, but there's nothing more annoying than waiting for an upgrade, only to have to login to windows to burn a CD.


rEvolutionist, firstly, Ubuntu doesn't wipe Windows bootloader off, it creates a menu. Secondly, Ubuntu is not run inside of Windows, the user (from what I understand of Wubi) has to reboot into Linux. It's just that the file system is kept as a file in windows, so that Ubuntu can simply be deleted, rather than having to make major changes to the layout of their hard disk. Thirdly, the live CD gives users a chance to play around with Ubuntu before committing to any installation - a try before you buy download and install. Fourthly, see firstly. Fifthly, well I'm a novice to intermediate Linux user, so that says bad things about your ability. Lastly, no, I have never heard of this freezing problem. But let's assume you're right, then that still makes it marginally better than Windows, doesn't it!

No, the real problem is that you just resent having to read documentation. Well then Linux isn't for you.


But for the rest of you

[rEvolutionist]

rEvolutionist, firstly, Ubuntu doesn't wipe Windows bootloader off, it creates a menu.

I know. But in a number of cases it doesn't include the Windows OS as one of it's options. This is all over the net. Google it if you don't believe me. Perhaps they have fixed it with Lucid. I hope so. Imagine being one of those windows users who heard that Ubuntu was a good alternative to windows and according to the DOCUMENTATION all you had to do was select all the defaults and you would have a dual boot system, and then find to your horror that you can't boot into windows anymore? I'm sorry, but if it fucks your system right out of the box, then it still needs more work.

Secondly, Ubuntu is not run inside of Windows, the user (from what I understand of Wubi) has to reboot into Linux. It's just that the file system is kept as a file in windows, so that Ubuntu can simply be deleted, rather than having to make major changes to the layout of their hard disk.

Ok, i didn't realise this. From his description it sounded to me like a virual box type thing. Oh and by the way, I have Lucid installed under VirtualBox on my desktop. And while it crashes (although less frequently) like Karmic did when installed in it's own partition, it at least just chucks me out of Gnome and makes me log in again. At least it doesn't freeze the hole system. But as my desktop is about 6 or so years old, it doesn't run Ubuntu under virtualisation very speedily.

Fifthly, well I'm a novice to intermediate Linux user, so that says bad things about your ability. Lastly, no, I have never heard of this freezing problem. But let's assume you're right, then that still makes it marginally better than Windows, doesn't it!

No, becuase windows works out of the box. Windows also has ctr-alt-delete to fix freeze ups. On researching my problem i came across SO many linux equivalents to ctrl-alt-delete, and none of them worked. The most recommened one was this stupidly long string of presses: Alt+PrintScreen+R+E+I+S+U+B. WFT?!?

No, the real problem is that you just resent having to read documentation. Well then Linux isn't for you.

I'm sorry, but the documentation is shit when it comes to anything but the most common problems. The forums are the only way to get answers, but then you get so many nobodies with really not much clue at all taking their wildest guess. Try looking up my ram problem or the problem I get with most linux distros on my old laptop - "Kernel Panic VFS: Unable to mount" - and you'll see the amount of people out there who have no fucking clue just making stupid guesses that lead nowhere.

But for the rest of you

Well that must include me, as I said I successfully use a minimal install of Ubuntu on my laptop.

[pcCoder]

Would you care to elaborate? What is it about Ubuntu that you don't like? Why do you find Debian "better" than Ubuntu? What do you mean by "better"?

It is just my personal preference. I do a lot of offline work and need to install something suddenly at times, I like being able to download the entire Debian onto a bluray disc or several DVDs. I know it is possible to achieve something similar with Ubuntu if I want to download the repository files and use something like APTonCD. I've also had some driver related problems with Ubuntu in the past that I didn't with Debian so I just stuck with Debian and haven't had the need to try Ubuntu again yet.

[Jumbo]

Any idea how to get any sound out of a Xonar DS on Ubuntu?

Its a common theme it seems whenever i try any Linux variant. I have yet to persuade any of them to make any noise whatsoever. This is one area where each Windows OS i have used seems to just work out of the box whereas i spent hours fiddling and ultimately getting nowhere on Linux based OS's.

Does the system recognize your sound device?
This might help.

Unfortunately i wasn't able to follow the instructions in the link to the letter. I couldn't make the various directories within /usr due to not having the permissions to do so. Do i need to have root access to do this?

I do have alsamixer on the machine though. Running that does pick up sound hardware but it looks like its picking up the motherboards onboard stuff rather than my card. I think i'll have another fiddle tonight when i get back to my pc.

[Jumbo]

Thanks!

With much use of sudo and playing about with gedit i now have noise coming out of the appropriate places (i.e. my speakers rather than obscenities from my lungs!)

Its not exactly the most straightforward process though and until its considerably more like the Windows double click on the install file and away it goes i think Ubuntu may have limited appeal to quite a few. I cannot for example imagine my mother who is comparatively new to the computing world getting on with it. That's not to say she is computer illiterate or anything. I was rather pleased to find out she had gotten an new scanner/printer combo and installed the drivers and generally set the thing up herself without and outside help.

Weirdly the graphics drivers were a more straightforward graphical proposition but for some reason it wanted to install them twice and only after the second install would they work.

[sennekuyl]

Thanks!

With much use of sudo and playing about with gedit i now have noise coming out of the appropriate places (i.e. my speakers rather than obscenities from my lungs!)

Its not exactly the most straightforward process though and until its considerably more like the Windows double click on the install file and away it goes i think Ubuntu may have limited appeal to quite a few. I cannot for example imagine my mother who is comparatively new to the computing world getting on with it. That's not to say she is computer illiterate or anything. I was rather pleased to find out she had gotten an new scanner/printer combo and installed the drivers and generally set the thing up herself without and outside help.

Weirdly the graphics drivers were a more straightforward graphical proposition but for some reason it wanted to install them twice and only after the second install would they work.

Yes, people do prefer convenient over reasonable. There is a good reason malware is less likely to be installed on the nixes. You most often need to be persistently stupid to install it.

[Jumbo]

The thing is that for most people who simply want to get things done having to spend so much time with the terminal to get sound out of their machine isn't all that reasonable.

For most people who use a computer the commands required would be utterly foreign to them and make pretty much no sense. Had it not been for the help here i wouldn't have had much of a clue how to install the sound cards drivers either. I can't see how security would be compromised by having a file one could simply download, double click and then it would prompt for your password the same as sudo does then go about its business. The method i had to use will put many people off bothering with Ubuntu.

I have had no issue with malware on the PC under Windows personally. Its pretty simple to not end up with a machine full of rubbish if one simple keeps the thing upto date and follows simple rules about not running things that you have no idea what they do.

Back to the sound thing. If i boot back into Vista then my sound is incredibly loud and distorted if i have not shut the machine down completely since running Ubuntu. I have seen this blamed on the Xonar DS Windows driver but that does seem a trifle odd given there is the same issue with many other cards and various Windows versions with the common factor being the Alsa installation. (The claim is the Xonar Windows driver doesn't reset the card on loading. Odd that the same or similar issue occurs with other cards too. The fix involves messing with the Alsa driver which is odd if the Windows driver is the culprit)

[rEvolutionist]

Actually, while we've got a few Ubuntu people around, is there a Linux equivalent to Notepad++? I need to install a good editor with programming support on my minimal install laptop. Any other recommendations?

[VazScep]

Actually, while we've got a few Ubuntu people around, is there a Linux equivalent to Notepad++? I need to install a good editor with programming support on my minimal install laptop. Any other recommendations?

How minimal? If you don't mind a Java-based IDE, you could try something like Eclipse or JEdit.

The choice over editors is about as complex and bitterly defended as the choice over distros. The original editor war goes back to the 70s and 80s over Emacs and Vim, and both those editors are extremely popular with Linux geeks today. Both of which are minimal enough that X is optional. You can use them over ssh with just a terminal.

Google is your friend, as are various fora.

[Animavore]

The thing is that for most people who simply want to get things done having to spend so much time with the terminal to get sound out of their machine isn't all that reasonable.

My sound, and everything else, worked straight away

[Jumbo]

It looks like it might be possible to install Notepad++ on Ubuntu.
This uses a script to do it but looks like there may be issues with the current version
http://code.google.com/p/npp-installer/

Perhaps there are other similar scripts out there.

[VazScep]

It looks like it might be possible to install Notepad++ on Ubuntu.
This uses a script to do it but looks like there may be issues with the current version
http://code.google.com/p/npp-installer/

Perhaps there are other similar scripts out there.

The script just installs it under WINE.

[rEvolutionist]

Actually, while we've got a few Ubuntu people around, is there a Linux equivalent to Notepad++? I need to install a good editor with programming support on my minimal install laptop. Any other recommendations?

How minimal? If you don't mind a Java-based IDE, you could try something like Eclipse or JEdit.

The choice over editors is about as complex and bitterly defended as the choice over distros. The original editor war goes back to the 70s and 80s over Emacs and Vim, and both those editors are extremely popular with Linux geeks today. Both of which are minimal enough that X is optional. You can use them over ssh with just a terminal.

Google is your friend, as are various fora.

I want something which has syntax highlighting for various programming languages. I just checked out sourceforge and downloaded Scintilla and another one called SetEdit. The SetEdit is a .deb file. Not really sure how I install that. Any tips?

[rEvolutionist]

It looks like it might be possible to install Notepad++ on Ubuntu.
This uses a script to do it but looks like there may be issues with the current version
http://code.google.com/p/npp-installer/

Perhaps there are other similar scripts out there.

The script just installs it under WINE.

Yeah, probably no good for me. My laptop is only about 160Mb ram and probably only a couple of hundred megahertz processor. I have a command-line install of Ubuntu with Fluxbox as the desktop.