"A man can marry a girl younger than nine years of age, even if the girl is still a baby being breastfed. A man, however is prohibited from having intercourse with a girl younger than nine, other sexual act such as forplay, rubbing, kissing and sodomy is allowed. A man having intercourse with a girl younger than nine years of age has not comitted a crime, but only an infraction, if the girl is not permanently damaged. If the girl, however, is permanently damaged, the man must provide for her all her life. But this girl will not count as one of the man's four permanent wives. He also is not permitted to marry the girl's sister."



This document makes me so fucking angry....

I have muslim friends that I haven't talked to in quite a while... and the more time goes by, I just don't know how I will. I know not all muslims are like this at all.... but how they can believe ANYTHING is being complicit by inaction... I just... sigh...

heyjude wrote:
I have muslim friends that I haven't talked to in quite a while... and the more time goes by, I just don't know how I will. I know not all muslims are like this at all.... but how they can believe ANYTHING is being complicit by inaction.

What do you mean by 'how they can believe anything is being complicit by inaction'? That doesn't make much sense.
If they believe these teachings are to be rejected, how can they be complicit?
If they do not believe these teachings, they are no more complicit than you, since you also don't believe these teachings.

Kuia wrote:

heyjude wrote:
I have muslim friends that I haven't talked to in quite a while... and the more time goes by, I just don't know how I will. I know not all muslims are like this at all.... but how they can believe ANYTHING is being complicit by inaction.

What do you mean by 'how they can believe anything is being complicit by inaction'? That doesn't make much sense.
If they believe these teachings are to be rejected, how can they be complicit?
If they do not believe these teachings, they are no more complicit than you, since you also don't believe these teachings.

I was just ranting when I wrote this... and wasn't very clear. i know that this page doesn't represent exactly what all muslims believe... but the quran is interpreted this way in some form or another by Mohammed and his lovely Aisha, for example. I listen to the BBC Asian Network a lot, and hear what very moderate 'western' muslims believe. It's really not that far off. They may not say you should marry a 9 year old, but they believe the quran and more importantly... they listen to their scholars who interpret writings in all sorts of ways to justify beliefs (just like catholics etc). I'm still not putting this as clearly as I'd like.. anyway. All you have to do is listen to a muslim woman arguing for why she wants to wear the hijab or burka. I dunno.... it's very upsetting for me. My friends are in India, not a place known for rational thinking... more like where people are sheep and go along with whatever they are forced to believe.

Anyway.... I didn't post this to talk about me and my thoughts, so it's my fault for commenting. I was just so revolted. The focus should be on the link... that is what is important.

How can you feel anything but sympathy for women who have had to live under those sorts of stupid, misogynistic rules throughout history?

It's hard to avoid the conclusion that the reason those foul ideas still survive in any form is because they are enshrined in a religious belief.

I wish I could be more sure about whether the quoted material is accurate. I take it that it's from Khomeini's Little Green Book, but last time I looked I couldn't find much about that publication, apart from one of the available translations having originated from the CIA and so being perhaps less than reliable. Whether the CIA is trying to do Islam down, or Muslims are trying to do the CIA down - well, both are probably true but which one in this case?
Edit typo.

"If a father (or paternal grandfather) marries off his daughter (or granddaughter) in her absence without knowing for a certainty that she is alive, the marriage becomes null and void as soon as it is established that she was dead at the time of the marriage."

What??? Does that mean if she's alive when they find out she's free to go???

"The best person to breast-feed a newborn baby it its own mother. It is preferable that she not ask to be paid for such service, but that her husband pay her for it of his own free will. If the sum the mother asks for is greater than that charged by a wet nurse, the husband is free to take the child from its mother and turn it over to the wet nurse."

What sort of society has to pay to a mother to breast-fed her own child???

"A woman who has had her ninth birthday, or who has not yet entered menopause, must wait for three menstrual periods after her divorce before being allowed to remarry. If a woman who has not reached her ninth birthday or who has not entered menopause gets temporarily married, she must, at the end of the contract or when the husband has released her from part of it, wait two menstrual periods or forty-five days before marrying again."

Second marriages for 9 year olds?

"If a child dies within the mother's womb and it is a danger to her life to leave it there, it must be extracted in the easiest way possible; it can. if need be, cut into pieces; this should be done by the woman's husband or a midwife."

How about taking her to a doctor?

The little green book online:
http://prophetofdoom.net/The_Little_Gre ... ntro.Islam

And if I wasn't sickened enough already (why do I find these things!! it was on the side bar of a clip of Neil Armstrong for fuck's sake!!)


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4g_QwiYxvkY[/youtube]

To be honest I can't imagine any Muslim girl actually having sexual urges with the way the culture makes her feel about sexuality and her body... but then nature is stronger than culture so you never know.

Fuck

I have never felt such hatred as I do for these powerful evil old men with robes, weapons and tongues of steel.

heyjude wrote:And if I wasn't sickened enough already (why do I find these things!! it was on the side bar of a clip of Neil Armstrong for fuck's sake!!)


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4g_QwiYxvkY[/youtube]

To be honest I can't imagine any Muslim girl actually having sexual urges with the way the culture makes her feel about sexuality and her body... but then nature is stronger than culture so you never know.

Fuck

I have never felt such hatred as I do for these powerful evil old men with robes, weapons and tongues of steel.

What's really disgusting is this dirty old man talking about something he simply could not understand and making something very personal into a dirty act. Those words coming out of that ugly old mouth are more foul than any swear words I've ever heard, especially with the hand gestures. I have some horrible thoughts in my head about him which I won't repeat.

Agrippina wrote:
What's really disgusting is this dirty old man talking about something he simply could not understand and making something very personal into a dirty act. Those words coming out of that ugly old mouth are more foul than any swear words I've ever heard, especially with the hand gestures. I have some horrible thoughts in my head about him which I won't repeat.

I know exactly what you mean. When I saw his hand move I wanted to reach into the monitor and rip his tongue out of his head. The reality of all those old terrible men and their young children came crashing in to me. Hatred is not strong enough.

Yeah.. flogging is just the beginning.

ixolite wrote:The little green book online:
http://prophetofdoom.net/The_Little_Gre ... ntro.Islam

You can buy it through Amazon from $35 upwards. There are only 11 copies available though, which isn't very many for the seminal work of such a revered maniac. http://tinyurl.com/y638xwd Have a look at that first review - it pops up elsewhere on the web and it doesn't scream that the book has an impeccable provenance. OTOH, I cannot find again the claim that an edition was produced by the CIA. The official title, btw, is Sayings of the Ayatollah Khomeini: Political, Philosophical, Social, & Religious (Paperback) It's a pity that there's no cover photograph. I've seen a complaint elsewhere that the LGB is described as vol 4 but the arabic on the cover says vol 2.

Anyway, if review and book are to be believed, Khomeini must have verged on idolatry, since he's reported as saying

"Women of the lineage of the Prophet...are menopausal at the age of sixty; others, once they are over fifty."

So Mohammed might not have been "a little bit gay" but he must have been a little bit supernatural. I wonder what that archangel did to him?

Oeditor wrote:

Anyway, if review and book are to be believed, Khomeini must have verged on idolatry, since he's reported as saying

"Women of the lineage of the Prophet...are menopausal at the age of sixty; others, once they are over fifty."

So Mohammed might not have been "a little bit gay" but he must have been a little bit supernatural. I wonder what that archangel did to him?

Shows how much he knew about women. Bloody idiot!
How many women could he have known intimately to have known about their hormonal changes, his mother and his own wives? That's real science, I must say! I wonder why we bother with medical science, we should just rely on dirty old religionists to give us all the info we want. Bah! Stupid old fart!

Maybe this old hag thinks this way but women actually marry at late 20s in Iran. consider Khomeini as a George Washington (of course, he was greater than founding fathers. I'm not kidding. if you want to know why, I'd be happy to elaborate) with brain dysfunction. legal marriage age in Iran is 18. younger with custodian's agreement.