I can’t stand Christian apologists who attack Islam. I'm not defending the religion at all here, but how does one deal with people who slog Islam for being backward, and then in the same breath endorse a book that praises bashing young children against rocks and demands death for anyone who lights a fire on a Saturday? Or how about when said apologists attack the contradictions in the Qur’an? Or the fucking science? It’s so LOLcat WTF and beyond the reaches of satire.


They need a paralyzing kick in the ass. I have never cited anything from Answering Islam on these grounds (unless to mock them), and never will either. People that slimy just can't be trusted.

Thoughts?

The thing is, there's a dearth of Christians that are actually calling for the bashing on kids on rocks or killing people for lighting fires. Muslims in this day and age are killing people over matters like that.

Christians have mostly relegated themselves to being annoying. I wish Islam could do the same.

It is hypocracy at it's finest. Not that I am defending them, but I'm of the impression that not many who would identify themselves as christian would know of mant of these stories or laws. Mant are casual or cultural christians who probably haven't read the bible.

It's the power of faith really. They somehow think their religion is the real true one. As if YHYWA has somehow failed to reveal Himself to the rest of the world. There is a specific time when people knew of him, a small group of discarded people and the rest of the world went on without knowing who he is and who they are.

This is a problem with every religion. Religious people suffer from tunnel vision. And you'll notice this if you debate with them, you will end on the specifics of their holy book. If they are good debaters they will force to come into their territory. Missing the big point of, first, is there a God? Is it your God? And why on earth is your religion the true one?

In any case, I don't have to worry about Fundamentalist Christians blowing up a plane. Or a club. Or a mall. Maybe an abortion clinic now and then but on the whole I can feel pretty safe. I don't have to worry about Fundamentalists Hindus, or Sikhs.

Islam has been, can be and is an expansionary religion. Christians would expand their religion with missionary and with the sword. But now they do it missionary style. Muslims, do it doggy-style Sorry, Muslims have spread by the sword and to some extent by the word, and are now still trying to spread with the sword and with the word.

The word comes usually from Saudia Arabia wahabi propaganda that they've fueled with the Oil money. The interesting difference between the sword of Chritisantiy and the sword of Islam is that there is no longer a governing body like there still is with Chriitsnatyiy. There is no Vatican church, there are religious schools and terrorist organizations but these hardly a khalipate. Which is a good thing, becaause in the past khalipas have tried to conquer lands. With the Quranic and hadiths backup of the east and weast belong to Allah. Subdue the lands until pay submit. Why God does not do this? Why he delegates this violence to humans? Is because Islam was born in Arabia, by desert dwellers who could only grow with the means of raids. Sometimes with words.

The problem with Islam is a specific one. Unforutantly the All-KNowing and All-Mercifiul God did not extend his love to others and only to a certain group, and a certain man, but he still wishes the entire world submits because he can stand that others worship other (false) gods. He can't stand you having imaginary friends. Than him

Of course not all muslims are dangerous, this would be an insult to the inherent goodness of many people, empathy and reciprocity that we have from nature and that we share with other mammals.

Virus wrote:The thing is, there's a dearth of Christians that are actually calling for the bashing on kids on rocks or killing people for lighting fires. Muslims in this day and age are killing people over matters like that.

Uganda, anyone? Christianity is still very much a deadly power in a lot of African countries, where children can be tortured and killed for witchcraft. Or how about the millions of deaths caused by the Vatican's stance on condoms and AIDs? Or abortion bombings? Or the frenzied right-wing supprt for Israel and apocalyptic war in the Middle East? There's no sweeping all of that under the rug.

However, that's still not the point I'm making. My gripe is that people could be stupid/slimy enough to attack a doctrine similar to their own in so many respects, and then proceed to offer their own holy book like it was much of an alternative.

Blitzkrebs wrote:

Uganda, anyone? Christianity is still very much a deadly power in a lot of African countries, where children can be tortured and killed for witchcraft. Or how about the millions of deaths caused by the Vatican's stance on condoms and AIDs? Or abortion bombings? Or the frenzied right-wing supprt for Israel and apocalyptic war in the Middle East? There's no sweeping all of that under the rug.

However, that's still not the point I'm making. My gripe is that people could be stupid/slimy enough to attack a doctrine similar to their own in so many respects, and then proceed to offer their own holy book like it was much of an alternative.

Great points Blitzkrebs!

Yes Blitzkrebs -- all over the world some Christians continue to commit remarkably stupid, evil and dangerous acts - exactly like Muslims. I'm a Christian, and I certainly do not bash my sisters and brothers in Islam,(peace to you all), but I think you have identified a wider problem.

Some Christians commit evil disgusting acts today.
Some Muslims commit evil disgusting acts today.
Some Jews commit evil disgusting acts today.
Some Hindus commit evil disgusting acts today.
Some Buddhists commit evil disgusting acts today.
Some Manchester Utd fans commit evil disgusting acts today.
Some country music fans commit evil disgusting acts today.
Some marxists commit evil disgusting acts today.
Some libertarians commit evil disgusting acts today.
Some democrats commit evil disgusting acts today.
Some atheists commit evil disgusting acts today.
Some dog owners commit evil disgusting acts today.
Some Volvo owners commit evil disgusting acts today.

and so forth...

Some but not all

Now if you can demonstrate a causal link between the commit evil disgusting acts and the ideologies, may be you are on to something. Thing is just because someone said they did something in the "name of X" does not prove that at all. MIllions of other adherents of ideology X may condemn, be shocked by, and disgusted by that act.

I don't hold atheists responsible for Year Zero, and i don't hold them responsible for Josh Timonen and Richard Dawkins. I can see that some but not all atheist are shits, and some but not all atheists are lovely people. I am patently aware that people are bigger than one idea, and can hold a multiplicity of readiungs or interpretations of that idea.

Ultimately, Blizkrebs is so, so right. People can attack each other for human behaviours, blame them on evil forces, and then proceed to offer their own ideology like it was much of an alternative. Maybe these people have never read The Selfish Gene, or stopped to wonder if there might be things about humans generally that they have for millennia fought, killed, hurt and slain each other, and blamed bogey-men like other people faiths or ideas, attributing all evil to them rather than wondering if maybe there is something about humans that makes us susceptible to this?

j x

I'm here because I could have written the original and I want to see what's said.

Blitzkrebs wrote:
Uganda, anyone? Christianity is still very much a deadly power in a lot of African countries, where children can be tortured and killed for witchcraft.

That's contained to one particularly fucked up part of the world. The witch-burners haven't made any effort to export their violence to Europe and America.

Blitzkrebs wrote:
Or how about the millions of deaths caused by the Vatican's stance on condoms and AIDs?

People are under no obligation to listen to the Catholic church.

Blitzkrebs wrote:
Or abortion bombings?

Anti-Abortionist violence has killed seven people. You think that compares to the daily suicide bombings in places like Iraq, Pakistan and Afghanistan?

Blitzkrebs wrote:
Or the frenzied right-wing supprt for Israel and apocalyptic war in the Middle East? There's no sweeping all of that under the rug.

The settler movement doesn't come close to the amount of wanton destruction and havoc of Islamist violence. Again, such violence is contained to one particular area and Jews have never shown an inclination to export violence to the West.

Blitzkrebs wrote:
However, that's still not the point I'm making. My gripe is that people could be stupid/slimy enough to attack a doctrine similar to their own in so many respects, and then proceed to offer their own holy book like it was much of an alternative.

Fair enough. Both books are garbage and babble. But you said;

how does one deal with people who slog Islam for being backward, and then in the same breath endorse a book that praises bashing young children against rocks and demands death for anyone who lights a fire on a Saturday?

But Christians aren't calling for such things. Most follow a vague, a la carte ecunumerical spiritualism. The world would indeed be better off if Islam were replaced with something like that.

Virus wrote:That's contained to one particularly fucked up part of the world. The witch-burners haven't made any effort to export their violence to Europe and America.

I don't see your point here. Whether or not Christianity is capable of fostering such gruesome behavior stands regardless of the location. And the Western world isn't untainted by this frenzy - remember that the current climate in Uganda was caused by American fundamentalists. What makes you think that such people would think twice about implementing similar policies here if they could?

Virus wrote:People are under no obligation to listen to the Catholic church.

Are you refering to political authority? If so I concede that, of course, people don't have to listen to the church. But if one's a Christian who believes firmly that the Vatican is God's office on the planet, where does that leave him? The church has plenty of authority in that regard.

Virus wrote:
Anti-Abortionist violence has killed seven people. You think that compares to the daily suicide bombings in places like Iraq, Pakistan and Afghanistan?

Point taken.

Blitzkrebs wrote:The settler movement doesn't come close to the amount of wanton destruction and havoc of Islamist violence.

Way, way off the mark here. Hundreds of thousands of families were displaced by Jewish settlers and forced into deplorable living conditions during the early days of Israel. Even today people living in Palestine deal with regular missle strikes, electrical shortages, blockades, filthy water, and displacement.

Blitzkrebs wrote:Again, such violence is contained to one particular area and Jews have never shown an inclination to export violence to the West.

Whether or not violence is confined to a particular region doesn't make it any less vile.

Blitzkrebs wrote:But Christians aren't calling for such things. Most follow a vague, a la carte ecunumerical spiritualism. The world would indeed be better off if Islam were replaced with something like that.

Not here. Not in America. Fundies still have a very powerful hold over politics.

Just a wee nitpick regarding some of the later quote attributions.
Carry on

Some Volvo owners commit evil disgusting acts today.

Yes. like driving at 30Kmh and usually wearing a hat

All religion is balderdash, but Islam is something else. Only the most deluded of christians let their religion rule their very lives as do muslims.
There are not too many christian nations who consult the babble when passing some legislation as do most muslim governments/dictators.
When was the last time christians flew a jet into a building as muslims did, and killed around 3000 people?

Correct. The body scanners at the airport were not installed as a response to Mormon terrorism, or Buddhist suicide bombers.

Virus wrote:Correct. The body scanners at the airport were not installed as a response to Mormon terrorism, or Buddhist suicide bombers.

We have seen both though y'know, bizarre as that sounds!

j x

^ Correct. My country only had to fight WWII because of fanatical Shintos who believed their emperor was a God. And that’s surly no big deal, right?

Not saying it never happened. I'm saying that right here and now, Mormon and Buddhist terror is almost non-existent.
There's been 15,000 Jihadist attacks since 2001. Name one other religion that that comes close to that.

Virus wrote:Not saying it never happened. I'm saying that right here and now, Mormon and Buddhist terror is almost non-existent.
There's been 15,000 Jihadist attacks since 2001. Name one other religion that that comes close to that.

Well, for the sake of accuracy, we really don't know how much terror the Buddhist majority in Sri Lanka has imposed on the Tamil minority. It's been a bloody mess there for quite a long while now. It's fair to say that we are waiting to see if it's over or almost over, but most would probably say that's a pipe dream. If you're talking about terror by minority populations in majority non-Buddhist countries, that's accurate as far as I can see.

We are not talking about buddhists or any other fringe religion. We are discussing christian apologetics and muslims.

[Please note, I don't like using capital letters for wooism.]

Someone wrote:
Well, for the sake of accuracy, we really don't know how much terror the Buddhist majority in Sri Lanka has imposed on the Tamil minority. It's been a bloody mess there for quite a long while now.

Humor me. What type of Buddhist slogans do they use over in Sri Lanka. And what sort of terror are we talking about.

Killing for one's religious beliefs is murder and delusion of the worst kind. I wonder if in the next few generations we will be rid of this scourge on mankind. And we are the dominant species on this planet?