OlivierK wrote:What's a moderate Muslim? Someone who doesn't want to kill infidels, keep non-muslim girls as sex slaves, marry 5-year-olds, or support ISIL?

I mean, you've actually answered your own question in your own post

chairman bill wrote:A moderate is surely a 'relational' terms, in that it defines a position only in relation to another. It is a position on a continuum, and is a subjective decision according to changing circumstances. If Scot Dutchy would care to define the two extremes on his continuum, I'm sure we could then pretty much define a moderate.

mrjonno wrote:Problem for (Muslims) is the 'moderate' position has changed.

I would describe the moderate position (as in the most common position) in Western Europe as not giving a shit about religion or god.
I would most people on this forum as being 'left' of this moderate position by actively disliking religion, but anyone who actually took religious remotely seriously as 'right' of this position.
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Basically if you take religion seriously in Western European you are not moderate, that doesnt mean you are dangerous or a threat but simply going to church/mosques regularly means you are not mainstream

I'm With Stupid wrote:

mrjonno wrote:Basically if you take religion seriously in Western European you are not moderate, that doesnt mean you are dangerous or a threat but simply going to church/mosques regularly means you are not mainstream

I wouldn't necessarily say that. I think "moderate" is more to do with the way the religion interacts with the rest of society than how individual Muslims happen to live their lives. I think it's possible to be a fairly conservative Muslim and still be a moderate if you oppose any attempts to inflict your religious views on other people (including other Muslims). The sort of Catholic who says, "I could never have an abortion, but I support everyone else's right to make their own choice about it." On a personal level, they believe abortion to be deeply immoral, but they recognise that it's a view based on their religion, and so has no business interfering with anyone else's ability to come to their own conclusion. So it goes without saying that to be a moderate Muslim, according to my definition, you have to be a secularist, to oppose blasphemy laws, to support the right to divorce, to support the free choice to leave a religion, amongst other things. But you can do all of these things and still wear a burka every time you leave the house.

Obviously being personally conservative often goes hand-in-hand with trying to impose your religion on others, but it isn't necessarily the case.

And "moderate" is, of course, a relative term. A moderate in Saudi Arabia might be someone who supports allowing women to drive and opposes chopping the hands of thieves.

Spearthrower wrote:

I'm With Stupid wrote:
I wouldn't necessarily say that. I think "moderate" is more to do with the way the religion interacts with the rest of society than how individual Muslims happen to live their lives.

I agree - it's about the relationship between their expression of beliefs and their interaction in society. Someone who seeks to change any element of society to conform to their interpretation of their religion is not moderate. However, even such a person is still a long way away from being a violent fanatic which, if you read the other thread that spurred this one, is the central contention here.

Anontheist wrote:

Scot Dutchy wrote:I have been accused of almost everything because I will not separate moderates from fundamentalists.

Well now there is a problem what is a moderate? In this case in particular what is a moderate muslim. I am not including xtians in this discussion because in most western societies they are a spent force. With the rise of IS/ISIS/ISIL certain people claim that this group has nothing to do with islam when actually they are following the koran to the letter. They are not introducing anything new. It is pure islam as mohammed would have done.

Now where do you draw the line? They use the same book they go to the same mosque but yet there are walking together fundamentalists and moderates.

Where is the difference. For some it seems so clear cut and I would like to know why?

50 year old men marrying 5 year old girls maybe is a start.
How about death to all infidels who refuse to convert. A nice one which IS has clearly shown. Non muslim girls as sex slaves? Another one that IS has clearly shown.

Just what is acceptable to these members? Why is there not a moderator's koran? Nicely cherry picked with all the bad bits missing. It would be a very slim book.

Just what is a moderate?

A good friend is a practicing Muslim.

He's American - but his background is half (Asian) Indian and half Saudi. He was raised in Florida and North Carolina, went to university in New York and Spain and lives and works in Japan, having married a Japanese woman. She's agnostic/non-religious.

He doesn't drink or consume pork, and he's been on the Hajj pilgrimage, and he travels about 3 hours on a Saturday to attend his mosque. He's convinced the there is a God and his true prophet was Mohammed.

He's a teacher by trade and a writer by inclination. He previously worked as an intern at 'Dolly' magazine in New York and has managed to get freelance contributions into some pretty-big name periodicals. He practices capoeira, is a break dancer and accomplished free-style rapper and beatboxer. He's got a weakness for karaoke as well.

His little girl is three. He's raising her in pretty much the most secular state in the world. He's not going to force his religious beliefs on his kid, but will let her make up her own mind. His parent's were a mixed marriage (Hindu and Muslim) and that's what they let him and his (secular/non religious) brother do.

He's what I think of when I hear the phrase 'Moderate Muslim'