[ Continued from: islam/i-am-muslim-t632-980.html#p41817 ]

Spearthrower wrote:

ray wrote:

Darkchilde wrote:

ray wrote:

Lets first answer Darkchilde, because he is the boss.

SHE, ray. I am a woman.

Oh no. What have I done.

I am equal to a man.

Really?

Lets see...

The only thing that differentiates us...

See what I mean?

is the biological function of sex.

There you are. At least one difference is spotted.

For a child, both sexes are needed.

Soon, that might become unnessary too.

As far as other things are concerned, men and women are equal.

Can you carry same weight as me?

I don't live in the US. I live in Europe, in Greece.

I dont know what you guys get up to in Greece. But I hope its really greasy.

But does Greece treat women same as men? Have they achieved equality which women want?

"Go to my reply about dress?"

Don't remember that one. Can you answer once more please?

Sure.

I do not agree Agrippina who thinks that girls should be allowed to walk topless in shopping centers.

Do you agree with her?

How about Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, Iran?

They are no worse than United States in abusing women's rights which you listed.

Hatred is a powerful emotion, and you want to harm other people, discriminate against them.

That is level 10.

Not liking someone, means that I will not simply have anything to do with that person, in my personal life.

That is level 5.

the rights that come from humanitarian values.

Which you define.

Equality, freedom of speech, freedom of choice.

Really?

Lets see...

Freedom to do as they please as long as...

See what I mean.

they do not harm anyone else.

Beautiful.

My freedom stops when...

There you go again.

it starts interfering with the freedom of another person.

I agree.

When I say the same thing, you accuse me of suppression.

What is different about women ray,
that you think that we are inferior to men?
Don't we have brains, feelings? Don't we bleed like everyone else?

Wow. What a passionate defence of your species.

I agree with you.


One thing though,

You dont bleed like men.

Typical muslim bigotry - perfect to see here as representative of modern Islam. I suggest retaining this post for future reference. I also have a Thai friend here with a Muslim boyfriend she's considering marrying - his family is demanding she convert. I can show her precisely what bullshit she'd be letting herself in for.

As for ray - if he's permitted to continue preaching this ignorant bigotry, I fail to understand why we can't politely tell him to 'fuck off'? That's really all it deserves.

I might be VEEERY dense, and probably am, but I'm missing the bigotry altogether. Are you sure you are not falling trap to your own prejudices against islam or smth, having made your own mind about his bigotry and trying to find any confirmation of this in every word he states? Take note, I'm the last one you'll ever find "defending" islam, but I've seen ray here not doing much wrong here, perhaps some level of ignorance on what are the women's rights in the US and in Saudi Arabia, but I'm also ignorant on those, so I can't really comment on that. And topless girls on malls? Really? Is that bigotry too? Well I'm kindof an anarchist in that particular case, but to classify his position as "bigotry" is somewhat an exaggeration. You could ask him as well if he would like men showing their own sex organs in the mall...

ray wrote:

Fallible wrote:

ray wrote:

I recommend that you read women's things carefully. You will see a whole lot more.

Ray, some 'creatures', or women as we like to call them, are deep, some are not. I don't think, judging by your performance here, that anyone should worry unduly about anything you recommend concerning women and their 'things'.

What...even after my amendments?:

islam/i-am-muslim-t632-970.html#p41727

.

I'm afraid so, ray.

Luis Dias, if you'd taken the trouble to read through the thread, you would know what is being referred to here. If you don't want to take the trouble, fair enough, but then you can't judge about what's going on.

katja z wrote:Luis Dias, if you'd taken the trouble to read through the thread, you would know what is being referred to here. If you don't want to take the trouble, fair enough, but then you can't judge about what's going on.

Luckily, Spearthrower solved that problem for me, since he quoted that text as evidence for ray's bigotry.

I am not denying that Ray is a bigot, I couldn't tell for I've lurked too sparsely in this thread. But if the evidence is as precise and objective such as that quotation, you're not even making a case, I'm sorry.

And since this thread is composed mostly by taunts, psychologically thinking, I'd expect Ray to make some provocations just in spite of, and then watch the overreaction. Perhaps that's the case, perhaps not.

But I just think we should all get out of the high horse, as if we are composed of nothing but perfect people and ray is a bigot because of posts such as ... ahhh... oh wait.

cherries wrote:

Shrunk wrote:

Agrippina wrote:An interesting point was raised.
If a man is superior and is incapable of taking care of himself and he has only a wife, daughters and sisters and no other relatives, does he still have the most intelligence and 'the power?'

A related issue arose in Taliban-era Afghanistan where, as a result of the lengthy war, there were a large number of widows and a short supply of potential husbands. Since women were not allowed to work and, of course, insurance was not available to them, this raised the question of how these women were actually supposed to survive. Of course, the Taliban were too busy with more pressing issues such as the destruction of Buddha statues to actually address a trifling concern like this, so these women were forced to rely on begging or prostitution to support themselves, or simply accepting a life of destitution.

there is this very good book by khaled hosseini,a thousand splendid suns,which gives one a little bit of an insight how it must have been like for afghan women at that time.

I've read the Kite Runner, I'm about to start reading this one.

A joke is posted:



Muslim reaction:




Seems reasonable...

Luis Dias wrote:

katja z wrote:Luis Dias, if you'd taken the trouble to read through the thread, you would know what is being referred to here. If you don't want to take the trouble, fair enough, but then you can't judge about what's going on.

Luckily, Spearthrower solved that problem for me, since he quoted that text as evidence for ray's bigotry.

I am not denying that Ray is a bigot, I couldn't tell for I've lurked too sparsely in this thread. But if the evidence is as precise and objective such as that quotation, you're not even making a case, I'm sorry.

And since this thread is composed mostly by taunts, psychologically thinking, I'd expect Ray to make some provocations just in spite of, and then watch the overreaction. Perhaps that's the case, perhaps not.

But I just think we should all get out of the high horse, as if we are composed of nothing but perfect people and ray is a bigot because of posts such as ... ahhh... oh wait.

So this:

Wow. What a passionate defence of your species.

I agree with you.


One thing though,

You dont bleed like men.

...doesn't strike you as being in any way unpleasantly sexist then?

One hundred pages. Is there any point in going on?

ray wrote:

Darkchilde wrote:
I am equal to a man.

Really?

Lets see...

The only thing that differentiates us...

See what I mean?

is the biological function of sex.

There you are. At least one difference is spotted.

For a child, both sexes are needed.

Soon, that might become unnessary too.

No men needed for babies? And who will take care of them when they wake up at night screaming and crying? Don't tell me I'll have to pay someone!

ray wrote:

As far as other things are concerned, men and women are equal.

Can you carry same weight as me?

I might be able to. You don't know how much I can carry; I may be able to carry more than you. I usually am the one to go shopping, and have to carry things on my own. No man needed to carry things for me; I can do that by myself. And how much would I need to carry anyway? The point is irrelevant, and it is not such a fundamental difference, if I can carry 10kg and you can carry 15kg!

ray wrote:

I don't live in the US. I live in Europe, in Greece.

I dont know what you guys get up to in Greece. But I hope its really greasy.

But does Greece treat women same as men? Have they achieved equality which women want?

Not for everybody, no. Fortunately it's changing, and more and more women are becoming independent and free of the sexism. Most of the sexism is due to the orthodox church, and how it views women; once you are free of that religion, then you let go of the misogyny that is inherent.

ray wrote:

"Go to my reply about dress?"

Don't remember that one. Can you answer once more please?

Sure.

I do not agree Agrippina who thinks that girls should be allowed to walk topless in shopping centers.

Do you agree with her?

I wouldn't mind it. I don't mind it if someone goes around naked whether a man or a woman. I am not bothered by the human body at all. The purpose of clothes is to protect us, and to make one sex more desirable to the other by the choice of colours, fashion etc. Some parts of our bodies are more sensitive than others and need some extra protection, and better care.

Only religious people are bothered by the human body, and they have those bodies! Why someone would consider their own body as shameful or sinful or whatever is beyond me, and is unreasonable.

ray wrote:

How about Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, Iran?

They are no worse than United States in abusing women's rights which you listed.

Really? And what about the Taliban who left widows without the means to support themselves based on their sex? How about the child brides? How about the fact that women are considered to be objects, slaves to men? That is not true in the US, and neither it is in Europe and some parts of Asia.

Does Saudi Arabia have women MPs? Did Afghanistan have women in the government in important places? Did the Taliban have women educators and doctors? Really?

ray wrote:

Hatred is a powerful emotion, and you want to harm other people, discriminate against them.

That is level 10.

Not liking someone, means that I will not simply have anything to do with that person, in my personal life.

That is level 5.

I don't quantify things like you do. I differentiate between hatred and not liking someone. They are not the same thing; in fact if I don't like someone, I don't wish them harm. I wish them the same as everybody, for them to be happy and fulfilled in their lives.

ray wrote:

the rights that come from humanitarian values.

Which you define.

Not entirely. They are defined by the humanitarian values. By humanism, which is based on logic and reason, not on mythology and blind assertions.

ray wrote:

Equality, freedom of speech, freedom of choice.

Really?

Lets see...

Freedom to do as they please as long as...

See what I mean.

they do not harm anyone else.

Beautiful.

My freedom stops when...

There you go again.

it starts interfering with the freedom of another person.

I agree.

When I say the same thing, you accuse me of suppression.

If you agree, ray, then why don't you answer what is different about women? I mean from a standpoint of intelligence, of mind capacity, of being able to do the same things as men? The same work?

ray wrote:

What is different about women ray,
that you think that we are inferior to men?
Don't we have brains, feelings? Don't we bleed like everyone else?

Wow. What a passionate defence of your species.

I agree with you.


One thing though,

You dont bleed like men.

[/quote]

Don't we bleed like men? ray, I have AB+ blood type, which is one of the most common blood types. If I ask people around here, there will be at least a big part of women and men that have the same blood type as me. If I fall and sustain an injury, I will bleed and with the same injury so will you. So, where is the difference?

ray wrote:

Darkchilde wrote:

ray wrote:

Lets first answer Darkchilde, because he is the boss.

SHE, ray. I am a woman.

Oh no. What have I done.

Nothing, except to be condescending.

I am equal to a man.

Really?

Lets see...

The only thing that differentiates us...

See what I mean?

is the biological function of sex.

There you are. At least one difference is spotted.

This is a stupid argument. Not all men are the same biologically either, some men are infertile or gay, that doesn't make them any less 'men.'

For a child, both sexes are needed.

Soon, that might become unnessary too.

As far as other things are concerned, men and women are equal.

Can you carry same weight as me?

Can you carry the same weight as Arnold Schwarzeneggar could in his youth?

I don't live in the US. I live in Europe, in Greece.

I dont know what you guys get up to in Greece. But I hope its really greasy.

But does Greece treat women same as men? Have they achieved equality which women want?

what was that, a feeble attempt at a joke?

"Go to my reply about dress?"

Don't remember that one. Can you answer once more please?

Sure.

I do not agree Agrippina who thinks that girls should be allowed to walk topless in shopping centers.

Do you agree with her?

Please show me where I said that anyone should be allowed to walk around 'topless in shopping centres?"

How about Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, Iran?

They are no worse than United States in abusing women's rights which you listed.

Really, women are allowed to be beaten by their husbands without any recourse in the USA? Please show us evidence of this.

the rights that come from humanitarian values.

Which you define.

Equality, freedom of speech, freedom of choice.

Really?

Do any of those rights appear in the Constitutions of Muslim countries?

Lets see...

Freedom to do as they please as long as...

See what I mean.

they do not harm anyone else.

Beautiful.

What's this? Sarcasm???

My freedom stops when...

There you go again.

it starts interfering with the freedom of another person.

I agree.

When I say the same thing, you accuse me of suppression.

I don't remember anyone accusing you of anything except being insulting, snide, condescending, rude....

What is different about women ray,
that you think that we are inferior to men?
Don't we have brains, feelings? Don't we bleed like everyone else?

Wow. What a passionate defence of your species.

I agree with you.


One thing though,

You dont bleed like men.

What? Show us some evidence of this assertion?

Oeditor wrote:One hundred pages. Is there any point in going on?

He does seem more comfortable responding to trivia although that gets in just as mush trouble.

John

ray wrote:One thing though,

You dont bleed like men.

Does anyone even know what he meant by this? I'm stymied.

Luis Dias wrote:


I might be VEEERY dense, and probably am, but I'm missing the bigotry altogether. Are you sure you are not falling trap to your own prejudices against islam or smth, having made your own mind about his bigotry and trying to find any confirmation of this in every word he states? Take note, I'm the last one you'll ever find "defending" islam, but I've seen ray here not doing much wrong here, perhaps some level of ignorance on what are the women's rights in the US and in Saudi Arabia, but I'm also ignorant on those, so I can't really comment on that. And topless girls on malls? Really? Is that bigotry too? Well I'm kindof an anarchist in that particular case, but to classify his position as "bigotry" is somewhat an exaggeration. You could ask him as well if he would like men showing their own sex organs in the mall...

For Christ's sake, I have to clear this up.
I did not say anything about people walking around malls without their tops on. This ray person is quoting me out of context again.

I said, commenting on the photograph of thousands of nude people in Sydney Australia last week, and that one of the men walked to his office wearing only his shoes, that I was not offended by nudity.

I didn't say anything about unhygienic walking around shopping malls without clothes on. FFS ray stop bloody quoting me out of context.

Shrunk wrote:

ray wrote:One thing though,

You dont bleed like men.

Does anyone even know what he meant by this? I'm stymied.

Stating the ruddy obvious at a lame ass attempt at some nudge-nudge-wink-wink 'ain't women funny' humour, and having it - unwittingly or otherwise - come across as a thoroughly nasty excerpt, given that ray has said that the koran justifies beating women in some cases.

Shrunk wrote:

ray wrote:One thing though,

You dont bleed like men.

Does anyone even know what he meant by this? I'm stymied.

I think he's about to dig another large hole for himself with this one.

John

Sphynxcat wrote:So this:

Wow. What a passionate defence of your species.

I agree with you.


One thing though,

You dont bleed like men.

...doesn't strike you as being in any way unpleasantly sexist then?

Well I am not sure, because I'm not sure I "got it". Is he talking about menstruation? Or about wars? Or about the actual phenomenon of bleeding being different? I'm assuming the first... and yes, it is unpleasant. It's not "bigotry". I can easily imagine a woman telling a man that "you don't bleed like women", and that wouldn't be bigot at all. So we are dealing here with a loaded context, IMHO, that is, when we read that sentence, we tend to read more than what is actually written.

OTOH, one can think about that "knowledge" (or is it a myth?) that it is thought that women live longer due to the regeneration of blood forced by the monthly menstruation... so it's not a "bad" difference for women, at least, I never thought that way.

z8000783 wrote:

Oeditor wrote:One hundred pages. Is there any point in going on?

He does seem more comfortable responding to trivia although that gets in just as mush trouble.

John

He cant think any further.

Now ray hold on to your hat if you are wearing one. Islam divides everything into men and women. On what basis?
If you have a prick you are a man?
Well take me I have a man's body but I am 80% female. Fully tested in a hospital. If I was 12 instead of 61 I would have a sex change but it was discovered far too late so I have to live in the body I have. Luckily I have a very understanding wife who is bi so it fits quite well.

Now get your bigotted twisted f.. mind around that. You never will because you cannot with your limited capacity of even thinking outside the box you live in. In your world I would be killed. Nice one.

BTW I go every week to a sauna. Here in the Netherlands that means it is mixed and totally naked. It is a big sauna with normally about 60-70 people all ages. You know we find the biggest joke when a muslim comes in (oh they do all those naked women). They have non stop erections and are asked to leave . Who is civilised?
They cause trouble and say they are being descriminated. Even the police have to come. Marvellous intellegent men. Of course we never see the women.

Agrippina wrote:

Luis Dias wrote:


I might be VEEERY dense, and probably am, but I'm missing the bigotry altogether. Are you sure you are not falling trap to your own prejudices against islam or smth, having made your own mind about his bigotry and trying to find any confirmation of this in every word he states? Take note, I'm the last one you'll ever find "defending" islam, but I've seen ray here not doing much wrong here, perhaps some level of ignorance on what are the women's rights in the US and in Saudi Arabia, but I'm also ignorant on those, so I can't really comment on that. And topless girls on malls? Really? Is that bigotry too? Well I'm kindof an anarchist in that particular case, but to classify his position as "bigotry" is somewhat an exaggeration. You could ask him as well if he would like men showing their own sex organs in the mall...

For Christ's sake, I have to clear this up.

Well I don't care about your "clearing it up". I was addressing Spearthrower's assertion that this post of Ray constituted a "this is it!" evidence of his bigotry. I tried to see where that bigotry was. Can't see it, must be very veiled indeed.

I did not say anything about people walking around malls without their tops on. This ray person is quoting me out of context again.

I said, commenting on the photograph of thousands of nude people in Sydney Australia last week, and that one of the men walked to his office wearing only his shoes, that I was not offended by nudity.

Good for you. In my opinion, I would not like to even imagine my boss in his office nude, or walking around in our working place wearing his shoes....

I didn't say anything about unhygienic walking around shopping malls without clothes on. FFS ray stop bloody quoting me out of context.

Ahhh, misquoted, aren't we? But then again you addressed a post to Ray by quoting me, which is also somewhat annoying... we're such perfect beings, us the smart apes .

Sphynxcat wrote:...given that ray has said that the koran justifies beating women in some cases.

Now if he endorses that, then that's good evidence for the accusation.

Luis Dias wrote:

Agrippina wrote:

Luis Dias wrote:


I might be VEEERY dense, and probably am, but I'm missing the bigotry altogether. Are you sure you are not falling trap to your own prejudices against islam or smth, having made your own mind about his bigotry and trying to find any confirmation of this in every word he states? Take note, I'm the last one you'll ever find "defending" islam, but I've seen ray here not doing much wrong here, perhaps some level of ignorance on what are the women's rights in the US and in Saudi Arabia, but I'm also ignorant on those, so I can't really comment on that. And topless girls on malls? Really? Is that bigotry too? Well I'm kindof an anarchist in that particular case, but to classify his position as "bigotry" is somewhat an exaggeration. You could ask him as well if he would like men showing their own sex organs in the mall...

For Christ's sake, I have to clear this up.

Well I don't care about your "clearing it up". I was addressing Spearthrower's assertion that this post of Ray constituted a "this is it!" evidence of his bigotry. I tried to see where that bigotry was. Can't see it, must be very veiled indeed.

I did not say anything about people walking around malls without their tops on. This ray person is quoting me out of context again.

I said, commenting on the photograph of thousands of nude people in Sydney Australia last week, and that one of the men walked to his office wearing only his shoes, that I was not offended by nudity.

Good for you. In my opinion, I would not like to even imagine my boss in his office nude, or walking around in our working place wearing his shoes....

I didn't say anything about unhygienic walking around shopping malls without clothes on. FFS ray stop bloody quoting me out of context.

Ahhh, misquoted, aren't we? But then again you addressed a post to Ray by quoting me, which is also somewhat annoying... we're such perfect beings, us the smart apes .

Actually, I wasn't addressing it to you, I merely quoted your post because it contained the reference to the same thing I jumped on Ray about earlier, sorry if I was wrong but I didn't know how else to do it maybe I should've quoted only the 'shopping mall' line. I apologise.

Now just watch ray make something out of this discussion.