Bernie Sanders is in the Late Show with Stephen Cobert lineup. Scheduled for Sept 18th.

It looks to me like Sanders is making a hell of a lot of promises that he doesn't have a chance of fulfilling. Just in his website's Income and wealth inequality page there are examples of things he simply can't do as president using presidential authority.

In my opinion he should be promising to try for many of these things instead of making it sound like he can just do them because he's president.

1. Demanding that the wealthy and large corporations pay their fair share in taxes. As president, Sen. Sanders will stop corporations from shifting their profits and jobs overseas to avoid paying U.S. income taxes. He will create a progressive estate tax on the top 0.3 percent of Americans who inherit more than $3.5 million. He will also enact a tax on Wall Street speculators who caused millions of Americans to lose their jobs, homes, and life savings.

How exactly does Sanders think he can "stop corporations from shifting their profits and jobs overseas to avoid paying U.S. income taxes." Maybe I'm naive about how politics works but unless Sanders has over two thirds of the house and senate behind him it's not going to happen.

The same with his promise to more than double the federal minimum wage by 2020.

The same with his trillion dollar promise to create 13 million new jobs in the spirit of FDR in make work projects.

And his declaration that if corporate America (meaning Walmart, Target, Kmart, Best buy cet. buying to resale) wants to buy Chinese products then China has to manufacture them here in America is absurd.

Sanders promises 1 million new jobs for disadvantaged youth by spending 5.5 billion dollars. What is he going to do fund more McDonald's and Taco Bells? Create more dishes to wash and floors that need mopping?

Then he calls the pay gap of 22% between women and men outrageous and promises to close that gap. But how is he going to do that? This is a very valid question given that studies done and the department of labor concurs that the gap is not do to systematic sexism.

Although additional research in this area is clearly needed, this study leads to the unambiguous conclusion that the differences in the compensation of men and women are the result of a multitude of factors and that the raw wage gap should not be used as the basis to justify corrective action. Indeed, there may be nothing to correct. The differences in raw wages may be almost entirely the result of the individual choices being made by both male and female workers

This information has been available for years, yet Sanders includes it in his platform.

Sanders promises to make tuition free at public colleges and universities. It is truly a noble cause that I support with all my heart and wallet because I'm still helping put a grandson through university and there's another one coming up soon. I'd even like to see it be retroactive since I've already put myself, a wife, and two daughters through university. The problem I have with Sanders on this is that it's never going to happen. He'd be lucky to get the purse strings on Pell grants loosened.

Sanders may have a chance of getting rid of the cap on social security taxes paid, but it would be a damn hard fight.

The big promise that Sanders is making is universal health care. To my mind it is the most important issue in the US. This one hits very close to home because I can't afford a health insurance plan that provides me with any protection against being financially ruined by a major illness. And I personally know three different families that have lost their homes and life savings because of major illness of a family member even though they were "fully" covered by insurance. Universal health care is the best way to go, but it's not going to happen in the US soon or possibly ever. Health care insurance reform is, in my opinion, what makes sense now. Twenty percent insurance deductibles made some sort of sense when they were for inexpensive procedures and medications, but when a major illness costs upwards of a hundred thousand dollars to treat successfully it makes no sense at all. Many people might as well not have been paying for insurance for all the good it's done them.

I think Sanders should be promising to try for healthcare insurance reforms that would protect the insured from loosing there homes, their savings, and retirement funds. Not promising some pie in the sky universal health care that he can't deliver.

I agree with Sanders that "it's time for the U.S. to join every major industrialized country on earth and provide universal healthcare to all", but this ignores the political reality that certain factions have convinced over half of congress and somewhere around half of the voting public that European and Canadian style health care is a disaster of inefficiency. Of course it's not true, but when did the truth matter that much in politics?

Sanders' proposal of "Requiring employers to provide at least 12 weeks of paid family and medical leave; two weeks of paid vacation; and 7 days of paid sick days. Real family values are about making sure that parents have the time they need to bond with their babies and take care of their children and relatives when they get ill." is going to run up against the same opposition that the Clintons ran into. Small business owners usually operate on a very thin margin. I know because I've been a small business owner, and was when the Clinton's took office. The proposals, similar to Sanders' promises, scared the shit out of me. I paid for a comprehensive health care plan for my full time employees, but that was about all I could afford as far as benefits were concerned. I had an unofficial sick leave policy, in that If I knew the occasional missed day at work was legitimate I didn't dock them for it. It was at my discretion because I had mainly young people working for me and I wasn't going to pay anyone sick time for nursing a hang over or going to Vegas to see the Grateful Dead or Carlos Santana live.

Sanders' promise to the people that he hopes will elect him amounts to a potential $3,600 per employee. I had fourteen employees. That's $50,400 a year. My net from the business and my take home in real dollars that I could spend after working 6 days a week 8-10 hours a day was between $35,000 and $40,000. My employees were paid between $12 and $15 an hour an average of $13.50 and hour plus the insurance plan I paid for. It's what I had to do to get and keep good employees. But it meant that I was not really making a considerable amount more than my employees.

So how does Sandes plan to fly this plan of exstensive employee benefits past small business people who tend to vote their pocket books?

This one sound good doesn't it?

Enacting a universal childcare and prekindergarten program. Every psychologist understands that the most formative years for a human being is from the ages 0-4.

It does until you learn that any scholastic advantage gained through preschool and or Head Start programs begin to vanish at 3rd or 4th grade and is entirely gone by middle school. Preschool and Head Start programs are good at making over achieving toddlers, but does nothing really for older children or adults.

And last we have this promise:

Breaking up huge financial institutions so that they are no longer too big to fail. Seven years ago, the taxpayers of this country bailed out Wall Street because they were too big to fail. Yet, 3 out of the 4 largest financial institutions are 80 percent bigger today than before we bailed them out. Sen. Sanders has introduced legislation to break these banks up. As president, he will fight to sign this legislation into law.

Sanders doesn't seem to understand that huge financial institutions spread the risks out more effectively than smaller financial institutions. And though I am personally offended that many rich people got off Scott free, and actually made money, from the debacle, the federal bail out saved many millions of smaller investors from financial ruin.

I can't quite understand Sanders wanting to make financial institutions small enough to fail. It goes against all logic.

As of right now I'm not against Sanders for the nomination or for him, and the same goes for Clinton though Hilary does have the advantage of bringing Bill back to the White House; In my opinion one of the best presidents ever.

I'm anxiously waiting to hear what Biden has to say when he joins the race, which I hope he will. I was a Biden fan way back when.

In my opinion Sanders is making promises to everyone and he can't deliver on any of them.

Sounds like you need a nap.

Oldskeptic wrote:It looks to me like Sanders is making a hell of a lot of promises that he doesn't have a chance of fulfilling.<snip>
In my opinion Sanders is making promises to everyone and he can't deliver on any of them.

Oh well, maybe you should consider not voting for him eh?

Briton wrote:

Oldskeptic wrote:It looks to me like Sanders is making a hell of a lot of promises that he doesn't have a chance of fulfilling.<snip>
In my opinion Sanders is making promises to everyone and he can't deliver on any of them.

Oh well, maybe you should consider not voting for him eh?

So people like Teague are allowed to post dripping praise for Sanders but the moment people start criticizing him for well not actually having a reasonable chance or plan to implement anything he is advocating the snarky one-liners come out.

I think Oldskeptic is well aware that he should consider not voting for him.

Since this thread is about Bernie Sanders campaign and criticisms are a part of that his post is valid.

But instead of actually addressing his posts you just hand wave it away because reasons.

One of the things most enlightened skeptics do before adopting a position is evaluate everything from all possible angle and then making an informed decision. Such criticism that Old Skeptic provides about Sanders is valid and should help people make their decision when it comes to voting. If you have already made up your mind and you are voting for him than good for you. I know I however am still on the fence and don't particularly have a favourite or least favourite democratic candidate.

If he doesn't stand a chance of making the changes, what's the point of voting for a president then? The same holds true for every candidate in that case so you may as well give up and not bother voting.

Sanders has always said he can't do it alone and it requires a political revolution. I've already explained this to Will several times though he seems to ignore it. He's constantly said that if he gets elected, the day after that people are going to have to be active in making changes.

Why do some people here have an issue with a president that wants their help instead of just pandering to big business?


Liberty University
On another note, he's going to be at Liberty University. Even if you're not a Sanders supporter, this has to be something worth seeing. Liberty is a deep conservative University, its obligatory attendance for the students and it's going to be interesting to see how a liberal progressive gets on talking to the right wing. Not only that, but as democrats have given up on red states, I'm assuming they're all going to be looking to see what happens here. Sanders himself said "It's great getting tens of thousands at my rallies but if they all agree with me it's easy." He wants to go into places where people disagree and see if he can find some common ground with them which is just another feather in his cap

He is not the first liberal progressive to talk at Liberty University. Convocations at LU were probably my favourite thing when I was there. 3 times a week listening to various speakers. Sure many of them were crazy, but listening to crazy people helped shape my opinions into what they are today.

The same does not hold true for every candidate though.

Plenty of candidates realize the art of governing involves....wait for it.....compromise. Even when said compromise is not what is needed or best. The backlash from the right with an election of Sanders would historically be roughly the same as the antebellum south when Lincoln was elected. Will it cause a civil war? I doubt it, but it will create gridlock even further than what Congress is now.

Why do some people here have an issue with a president that wants their help instead of just pandering to big business?

This is a strawman/loaded question.

No one is against Sanders wholesale. But a good portion of us are not just jumping on a single candidate's bandwagon. So far still out of all Democratic candidates Jim Webb would have my vote and that is because I think he did a hell of a job as senator for my state.

But we are also being realistic when it comes to campaign promises. America was duped by a lot of Obama's promises, especially the whole bit where he promised to end the Iraq War and it ended and people praised him for it. Like anyone with a 3rd grade education could google that W. Bush had already made a deal with the Iraqi people to withdraw all US military personnel from Iraq by 2011.

Candidates can promise until they are blue in the face. Until they actually have substance to their claims and actual proof that they are going to go through with it/ have the ability to go through with it than I don't care.

Sanders isn't making any promises except nominees to the SC have to overturn CU in regards to money in politics.

willhud9 wrote:

Why do some people here have an issue with a president that wants their help instead of just pandering to big business?

This is a strawman/loaded question.

Name the last president that did then.

Forget Sanders, Frank Underwood is the stand-out candidate.

willhud9 wrote:

Briton wrote:

Oldskeptic wrote:It looks to me like Sanders is making a hell of a lot of promises that he doesn't have a chance of fulfilling.<snip>
In my opinion Sanders is making promises to everyone and he can't deliver on any of them.

Oh well, maybe you should consider not voting for him eh?

So people like Teague are allowed to post dripping praise for Sanders but the moment people start criticizing him for well not actually having a reasonable chance or plan to implement anything he is advocating the snarky one-liners come out.

I think Oldskeptic is well aware that he should consider not voting for him.

Since this thread is about Bernie Sanders campaign and criticisms are a part of that his post is valid.

But instead of actually addressing his posts you just hand wave it away because reasons.

One of the things most enlightened skeptics do before adopting a position is evaluate everything from all possible angle and then making an informed decision. Such criticism that Old Skeptic provides about Sanders is valid and should help people make their decision when it comes to voting. If you have already made up your mind and you are voting for him than good for you. I know I however am still on the fence and don't particularly have a favourite or least favourite democratic candidate.

Lighten up. TI don't think there's a cat-in-hell's chance that Oldskeptic would vote for Sanders regardless of what he has allegedly 'promised'. I was being sarcastic.

I definitely would vote for him if I were able; even though I think he probably wont be able to do everything he would like to do.

Briton wrote:

willhud9 wrote:

Briton wrote:

Oldskeptic wrote:It looks to me like Sanders is making a hell of a lot of promises that he doesn't have a chance of fulfilling.<snip>
In my opinion Sanders is making promises to everyone and he can't deliver on any of them.

Oh well, maybe you should consider not voting for him eh?

So people like Teague are allowed to post dripping praise for Sanders but the moment people start criticizing him for well not actually having a reasonable chance or plan to implement anything he is advocating the snarky one-liners come out.

I think Oldskeptic is well aware that he should consider not voting for him.

Since this thread is about Bernie Sanders campaign and criticisms are a part of that his post is valid.

But instead of actually addressing his posts you just hand wave it away because reasons.

One of the things most enlightened skeptics do before adopting a position is evaluate everything from all possible angle and then making an informed decision. Such criticism that Old Skeptic provides about Sanders is valid and should help people make their decision when it comes to voting. If you have already made up your mind and you are voting for him than good for you. I know I however am still on the fence and don't particularly have a favourite or least favourite democratic candidate.

Lighten up. TI don't think there's a cat-in-hell's chance that Oldskeptic would vote for Sanders regardless of what he has allegedly 'promised'. I was being sarcastic.

I definitely would vote for him if I were able; even though I think he probably wont be able to do everything he would like to do.

WE also need to remember that however much we like him, he shouldn't be able to do everything he wants to do. As long as the democratic process is followed then it's all ok.

The question I have though - if he wants people to march on Washington or wherever to get changes made, what happens when you have roughly the same amount of people march for and against the position. I almost want him to win just to see if the country would march with him and what affect it has on politics.

Briton wrote:

willhud9 wrote:

Briton wrote:

Oldskeptic wrote:It looks to me like Sanders is making a hell of a lot of promises that he doesn't have a chance of fulfilling.<snip>
In my opinion Sanders is making promises to everyone and he can't deliver on any of them.

Oh well, maybe you should consider not voting for him eh?

So people like Teague are allowed to post dripping praise for Sanders but the moment people start criticizing him for well not actually having a reasonable chance or plan to implement anything he is advocating the snarky one-liners come out.

I think Oldskeptic is well aware that he should consider not voting for him.

Since this thread is about Bernie Sanders campaign and criticisms are a part of that his post is valid.

But instead of actually addressing his posts you just hand wave it away because reasons.

One of the things most enlightened skeptics do before adopting a position is evaluate everything from all possible angle and then making an informed decision. Such criticism that Old Skeptic provides about Sanders is valid and should help people make their decision when it comes to voting. If you have already made up your mind and you are voting for him than good for you. I know I however am still on the fence and don't particularly have a favourite or least favourite democratic candidate.

Lighten up. TI don't think there's a cat-in-hell's chance that Oldskeptic would vote for Sanders regardless of what he has allegedly 'promised'. I was being sarcastic.

I might vote for him. I haven't made my mind up who I'm going to vote for, and I probably won't for a while. One of my main considerations will be which democrat I think can beat the most likely republican candidate. Until then I'll give credit were credit is due and criticize what I think deserves criticism. Right now I'm not feeling very generous towards anyone with a long list of promises they have no way of keeping.

The stuff Sanders is saying is more "leader-y" than if he was all wishy washy with "I'll try. . . ". Saying "I will. . . " is very inspiring, dontcha know.

But yeah, Sanders'll have a tough road ahead. I think he'll have an easier time than Obama has, to be honest. Then again, the Fox News media train hasn't ramped up on his being a filthy red. Then again, Fox News is suffering a crisis right now with their issues with Trump. I've read a decent amount of posts of mad conservative sites like Free Republic that even far right conservatives would prefer Sanders cause, while he may be a filthy pinko, they knew exactly where he stands since he's honest.

If Sanders gets the Democratic nomination (a far shot, even now), then I'd definitely vote for him. If he doesn't, my worry is that the left will throw the election by writing him in.

Oldskeptic wrote:It looks to me like Sanders is making a hell of a lot of promises that he doesn't have a chance of fulfilling.

I don't recall him making any promises.

He has quite clearly indicated what he feels are the most important issues that he would be focusing on while president, but I don't recall him ever saying "I will do this", or "This will be done" nor do I think anyone expects everything he brings to the table will get past Congress. That doesn't mean we should abandon even trying or make it a taboo topic.

CdesignProponentsist wrote:

Oldskeptic wrote:It looks to me like Sanders is making a hell of a lot of promises that he doesn't have a chance of fulfilling.

I don't recall him making any promises.

As president, Senator Bernie Sanders will reduce income and wealth inequality by:

1. Demanding that the wealthy and large corporations pay their fair share in taxes. As president, Sen. Sanders will stop corporations from shifting their profits and jobs overseas to avoid paying U.S. income taxes. He will create a progressive estate tax on the top 0.3 percent of Americans who inherit more than $3.5 million. He will also enact a tax on Wall Street speculators who caused millions of Americans to lose their jobs, homes, and life savings.
2. Increasing the federal minimum wage from $7.25 to $15 an hour by 2020. In the year 2015, no one who works 40 hours a week should be living in poverty.
4. Putting at least 13 million Americans to work by investing $1 trillion over five years rebuilding our crumbling roads, bridges, railways, airports, public transit systems, ports, dams, wastewater plants, and other infrastructure needs.
5. Reversing trade policies like NAFTA, CAFTA, and PNTR with China that have driven down wages and caused the loss of millions of jobs. If corporate America wants us to buy their products they need to manufacture those products in this country, not in China or other low-wage countries.
6. Creating 1 million jobs for disadvantaged young Americans by investing $5.5 billion in a youth jobs program. Today, the youth unemployment rate is off the charts. We have got to end this tragedy by making sure teenagers and young adults have the jobs they need to move up the economic ladder.
7. Fighting for pay equity by signing the Paycheck Fairness Act into law. It is an outrage that women earn just 78 cents for every dollar a man earns.
8. Making tuition free at public colleges and universities throughout America. Everyone in this country who studies hard should be able to go to college regardless of income.
9. Expanding Social Security by lifting the cap on taxable income above $250,000. At a time when the senior poverty rate is going up, we have got to make sure that every American can retire with dignity and respect.
10. Guaranteeing healthcare as a right of citizenship by enacting a Medicare for all single-payer healthcare system. It’s time for the U.S. to join every major industrialized country on earth and provide universal healthcare to all.
11. Requiring employers to provide at least 12 weeks of paid family and medical leave; two weeks of paid vacation; and 7 days of paid sick days. Real family values are about making sure that parents have the time they need to bond with their babies and take care of their children and relatives when they get ill.
Enacting a universal childcare and prekindergarten program. Every psychologist understands that the most formative years for a human being is from the ages 0-4. We have got to make sure every family in America has the opportunity to send their kids to a high quality childcare and pre-K program.
12. Making it easier for workers to join unions by fighting for the Employee Free Choice Act. One of the most significant reasons for the 40-year decline in the middle class is that the rights of workers to collectively bargain for better wages and benefits have been severely undermined.
13 Breaking up huge financial institutions so that they are no longer too big to fail. Seven years ago, the taxpayers of this country bailed out Wall Street because they were too big to fail. Yet, 3 out of the 4 largest financial institutions are 80 percent bigger today than before we bailed them out. Sen. Sanders has introduced legislation to break these banks up. As president, he will fight to sign this legislation into law.

There's 13 of them right there, with only a couple having any chance of being kept.

He has quite clearly indicated what he feels are the most important issues that he would be focusing on while president, but I don't recall him ever saying "I will do this", or "This will be done"...

Then maybe you should pay some attention to his official website.

As president, Senator Bernie Sanders will reduce income and wealth inequality by:

...nor do I think anyone expects everything he brings to the table will get past Congress. That doesn't mean we should abandon even trying or make it a taboo topic.

Don't get me wrong as far as those 13 promises above go I'm with Sanders except for a couple that I think are solutions to problems that don't exist. Sanders' wish list matches mine own pretty closely. I just don't like how easy he's making it sound to get those things done. I'd be far more impressed if he promised to fight for those things or never to stop fighting for them. That's a promise he could keep and I believe he would keep it.

Another thing is that promising all these things sets him up to be viewed as a failure when he doesn't deliver and could pave the way for a single term democratic president, and a republican president elected in 2020, and that's the last thing we need.

Oldskeptic wrote:Don't get me wrong as far as those 13 promises above go I'm with Sanders except for a couple that I think are solutions to problems that don't exist. Sanders' wish list matches mine own pretty closely. I just don't like how easy he's making it sound to get those things done. I'd be far more impressed if he promised to fight for those things or never to stop fighting for them. That's a promise he could keep and I believe he would keep it.

Another thing is that promising all these things sets him up to be viewed as a failure when he doesn't deliver and could pave the way for a single term democratic president, and a republican president elected in 2020, and that's the last thing we need.

Pretty much where I am on this.

Nicko wrote:

Oldskeptic wrote:Don't get me wrong as far as those 13 promises above go I'm with Sanders except for a couple that I think are solutions to problems that don't exist. Sanders' wish list matches mine own pretty closely. I just don't like how easy he's making it sound to get those things done. I'd be far more impressed if he promised to fight for those things or never to stop fighting for them. That's a promise he could keep and I believe he would keep it.

Another thing is that promising all these things sets him up to be viewed as a failure when he doesn't deliver and could pave the way for a single term democratic president, and a republican president elected in 2020, and that's the last thing we need.

Pretty much where I am on this.

It's not so much that I think he can make all these changes it's more of how he's going to try and achieve it that interests me. Can a president that has a grassroots movement behind him make a greater change than the age old way of doing politics. Let's assume for a moment, that on the big issues that the majority of the country agree with, he manages to make faster changes than had ever been before by getting people to march and write/email in etc, what effect would that have on politics around the world?

It could certainly open the door for more people orientated leaders and might get more people incentivised to participate in politics?

Teague wrote:

Nicko wrote:

Oldskeptic wrote:Don't get me wrong as far as those 13 promises above go I'm with Sanders except for a couple that I think are solutions to problems that don't exist. Sanders' wish list matches mine own pretty closely. I just don't like how easy he's making it sound to get those things done. I'd be far more impressed if he promised to fight for those things or never to stop fighting for them. That's a promise he could keep and I believe he would keep it.

Another thing is that promising all these things sets him up to be viewed as a failure when he doesn't deliver and could pave the way for a single term democratic president, and a republican president elected in 2020, and that's the last thing we need.

Pretty much where I am on this.

It's not so much that I think he can make all these changes it's more of how he's going to try and achieve it that interests me. Can a president that has a grassroots movement behind him make a greater change than the age old way of doing politics. Let's assume for a moment, that on the big issues that the majority of the country agree with, he manages to make faster changes than had ever been before by getting people to march and write/email in etc, what effect would that have on politics around the world?

It could certainly open the door for more people orientated leaders and might get more people incentivised to participate in politics?

That would be nice.

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Oldskeptic wrote:
Don't get me wrong as far as those 13 promises above go I'm with Sanders except for a couple that I think are solutions to problems that don't exist. Sanders' wish list matches mine own pretty closely. I just don't like how easy he's making it sound to get those things done. I'd be far more impressed if he promised to fight for those things or never to stop fighting for them. That's a promise he could keep and I believe he would keep it.

Another thing is that promising all these things sets him up to be viewed as a failure when he doesn't deliver and could pave the way for a single term democratic president, and a republican president elected in 2020, and that's the last thing we need.

Well anyone anyone who believes that a campaign promise is a guarantee probably hasn't been around the sun very many times. I still don't think because it is stated as a promise is a mark against the candidate. If you agree with the candidate's values and you believe he is honest, vote for him. If you don't, then don't.