Donald Trump for President!

For discussion of politics, and what's going on in the world today.

Moderators: kiore, Blip, The_Metatron

Re: Donald Trump for President!

#1581  Postby The_Piper » May 04, 2016 3:23 pm

John Platko wrote:
The_Piper wrote:
John Platko wrote::scratch: Is Trump right about Cruz's dad hanging with Lee Harvey Oswald a month or so before the assassination?

From

Mr. Trump’s comments also came on the day of the Indiana primary, where the Republican front-runner can effectively close out any chance for Mr. Cruz to deny him the presidential nomination.

In the interview, Mr. Trump was asked to respond to the elder Mr. Cruz’s invocations of God as he urged evangelical voters to support his son, suggesting the alternative could mean the “destruction of America.”

“I think it’s a disgrace that he’s allowed to do it. I think it’s a disgrace that he’s allowed to say it,” Mr. Trump said, before adding, “And, you know, his father was with Lee Harvey Oswald prior to Oswald’s being — you know, shot. I mean, the whole thing is ridiculous. What is this, right, prior to his being shot, and nobody brings it up. They don’t even talk about that. That was reported and nobody talks about it. But I think it’s horrible.”

He went on, “What was he doing with Lee Harvey Oswald shortly before the death, before the shooting? It’s horrible.”


I :dunno: what to make of all of that but I find it remarkable that we don't know who all the people in that picture with Oz are.

:coffee:
Wha? Of course not.


How do you know? Where was Cruz's dad at the time that photo was taken?


That article just reports on the story, it says nothing new. The only source is still the National Enquirer. You know about that magazine right? The one that has claimed aliens are among the stars. The Hollywood stars.


I don't know much about the magazine- but I seem to recall it had some remarkable success at breaking stories- they were right about Tiger Woods! They were right about O.J.'s Bruno Magli shoes. They were right about John Edwards. And if they're wrong about claims like this then big lawsuits are in their future.


That little episode in New Orleans is very interesting and I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss it. Not that I'm thinking Cruz's father had something to do with killing JFK, I'm not. But he had the right sort of background to be in that group. And it does kind-of look like him. Jefferson Morley is still trying to pry some documents from the CIA that might tell us more about this aspect of the assassination. There must be some reason why they are holding on to them so tightly.

Apparently you think that publication is a reliable source of news. It's not. Sure they can be sued, but they have good lawyers, and it's difficult to prove malice in reporting lies. They've been falsely reporting ridiculous, insane things for a long time. They'd have been put out of business decades ago if a libel lawsuit was a big deal to them. Big lawsuits are not only in their future, but in their past too.
Sure, maybe that was Ted Cruz' father with Lee Harvey Oswald. But is there anything more credible than the Enquirer reporting or even speculating about it? If it were credible, wouldn't it be a pretty big news story by now? Why do you suppose it's not?
"There are two ways to view the stars; as they really are, and as we might wish them to be." - Carl Sagan
"If an argument lasts more than five minutes, both parties are wrong" unknown
Self Taken Pictures of Wildlife
User avatar
The_Piper
 
Name: Fletch F. Fletch
Posts: 30416
Age: 49
Male

Country: Chainsaw Country
United States (us)
Print view this post

Re: Donald Trump for President!

#1582  Postby John Platko » May 04, 2016 3:34 pm

SkyMutt wrote:
John Platko wrote:Is Trump right about Cruz's dad hanging with Lee Harvey Oswald a month or so before the assassination?


You couldn't do a little research yourself? You're willing to take Trump's yammering as having some relation to reality, and consider the "National Enquirer" a source of anything but sensational nonsense? You need to be spoon-fed something other than bland uncritical reportage of statements made by the two campaigns? I'm not surprised.

When Castro came to power in 1959, the elder Cruz quickly grew disillusioned. His younger sister fought in the counter-revolution and was tortured by the new regime. Rafael returned to Cuba in 1960 to see his family, and was shaken by what Castro’s Communist dictatorship had wrought. “When my father got back to Austin,” Cruz said, “he sat down and made a list of every place he’d gone to speak, and he made a point of going back to each of them and standing in front of them and saying, ‘I owe you an apology. I misled you. I took your money and I sent it to evil ends.’ And he said, ‘I didn’t do so knowingly, but I did so nonetheless, and for that I’m truly sorry.’ ”


We're asked to believe, then, that Oswald ran into a Rafael Cruz at an employment office in a city where Cruz may not have been living. That Cruz then agreed to join Oswald in passing out flyers, despite their advocating a position that Cruz himself vehemently opposed. That he may or may not have been photographed doing so -- and that a witness at the scene thought the other guy passing out flyers was a lot taller than Cruz.

[source]



Ahhhh. So this is easily all cleared up ....

Who is the man in the picture that some are saying is Cruz's dad? It's not clear to me that the man in the picture is the same man that was filmed handing out Oz's pamphlets.

And why would Rafael Cruz being anti-Castro stop him from being in that photo? Other than Oswald, there wasn't exactly a big pro Castro group openly hanging out in New Orleans.
I like to imagine ...
User avatar
John Platko
 
Name: John Platko
Posts: 9411
Male

Country: US
United States (us)
Print view this post

Re: Donald Trump for President!

#1583  Postby Shrunk » May 04, 2016 3:39 pm

Agrippina wrote:I've been asking this question since the campaign began. It's almost if they don't have thousands of youngish politicians with even half a functioning brain already working in government. Why did they have to scrape the bottom of the barrel to find the worst possible candidates they could? Could it be because of Dubya's attitude towards education that the GOP simply doesn't have any people who are even half intelligent?


My purely speculative guess: The guiding philosophy of the more intelligent right wing leaders is free market capitalism, which is largely disparaging of any active role for government. So a young, intelligent, ambitious person who buys into this philosophy is not going to see government as a viable or productive career option.
"A community is infinitely more brutalised by the habitual employment of punishment than it is by the occasional occurrence of crime." -Oscar Wilde
User avatar
Shrunk
 
Posts: 26170
Age: 59
Male

Country: Canada
Canada (ca)
Print view this post

Re: Donald Trump for President!

#1584  Postby John Platko » May 04, 2016 3:46 pm

The_Piper wrote:
John Platko wrote:
The_Piper wrote:
John Platko wrote::scratch: Is Trump right about Cruz's dad hanging with Lee Harvey Oswald a month or so before the assassination?

From



I :dunno: what to make of all of that but I find it remarkable that we don't know who all the people in that picture with Oz are.

:coffee:
Wha? Of course not.


How do you know? Where was Cruz's dad at the time that photo was taken?


That article just reports on the story, it says nothing new. The only source is still the National Enquirer. You know about that magazine right? The one that has claimed aliens are among the stars. The Hollywood stars.


I don't know much about the magazine- but I seem to recall it had some remarkable success at breaking stories- they were right about Tiger Woods! They were right about O.J.'s Bruno Magli shoes. They were right about John Edwards. And if they're wrong about claims like this then big lawsuits are in their future.


That little episode in New Orleans is very interesting and I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss it. Not that I'm thinking Cruz's father had something to do with killing JFK, I'm not. But he had the right sort of background to be in that group. And it does kind-of look like him. Jefferson Morley is still trying to pry some documents from the CIA that might tell us more about this aspect of the assassination. There must be some reason why they are holding on to them so tightly.

Apparently you think that publication is a reliable source of news. It's not. Sure they can be sued, but they have good lawyers, and it's difficult to prove malice in reporting lies. They've been falsely reporting ridiculous, insane things for a long time. They'd have been put out of business decades ago if a libel lawsuit was a big deal to them. Big lawsuits are not only in their future, but in their past too.
Sure, maybe that was Ted Cruz' father with Lee Harvey Oswald. But is there anything more credible than the Enquirer reporting or even speculating about it? If it were credible, wouldn't it be a pretty big news story by now? Why do you suppose it's not?


I think it wise not to simply take the word of the National Enquirer as being truth. But they have broke stories that the more respected press missed- big stories that held up- so while I don't just swallow all the Enquirers puts out, I also don't dismiss what they say because they said it. :nono:

:scratch: I'm guessing you're not familiar with how the main st media has reported on the JFK assassination. They don't tend to be interested in stories like this - it took Oliver Stone to get the back story documents released from the government- and we still don't have all of them.

Doesn't it seem a bit odd to you that we have a photo of Oswald a few months before the assassination and we don't know who all the people in that photo are?
I like to imagine ...
User avatar
John Platko
 
Name: John Platko
Posts: 9411
Male

Country: US
United States (us)
Print view this post

Re: Donald Trump for President!

#1585  Postby The_Piper » May 04, 2016 4:11 pm

John Platko wrote:
The_Piper wrote:
John Platko wrote:
The_Piper wrote:Wha? Of course not.


How do you know? Where was Cruz's dad at the time that photo was taken?


That article just reports on the story, it says nothing new. The only source is still the National Enquirer. You know about that magazine right? The one that has claimed aliens are among the stars. The Hollywood stars.


I don't know much about the magazine- but I seem to recall it had some remarkable success at breaking stories- they were right about Tiger Woods! They were right about O.J.'s Bruno Magli shoes. They were right about John Edwards. And if they're wrong about claims like this then big lawsuits are in their future.


That little episode in New Orleans is very interesting and I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss it. Not that I'm thinking Cruz's father had something to do with killing JFK, I'm not. But he had the right sort of background to be in that group. And it does kind-of look like him. Jefferson Morley is still trying to pry some documents from the CIA that might tell us more about this aspect of the assassination. There must be some reason why they are holding on to them so tightly.

Apparently you think that publication is a reliable source of news. It's not. Sure they can be sued, but they have good lawyers, and it's difficult to prove malice in reporting lies. They've been falsely reporting ridiculous, insane things for a long time. They'd have been put out of business decades ago if a libel lawsuit was a big deal to them. Big lawsuits are not only in their future, but in their past too.
Sure, maybe that was Ted Cruz' father with Lee Harvey Oswald. But is there anything more credible than the Enquirer reporting or even speculating about it? If it were credible, wouldn't it be a pretty big news story by now? Why do you suppose it's not?


I think it wise not to simply take the word of the National Enquirer as being truth. But they have broke stories that the more respected press missed- big stories that held up- so while I don't just swallow all the Enquirers puts out, I also don't dismiss what they say because they said it. :nono:

:scratch: I'm guessing you're not familiar with how the main st media has reported on the JFK assassination. They don't tend to be interested in stories like this - it took Oliver Stone to get the back story documents released from the government- and we still don't have all of them.

Doesn't it seem a bit odd to you that we have a photo of Oswald a few months before the assassination and we don't know who all the people in that photo are?
No that doesn't seem odd. There are pictures of me where I don't know all of the people in them too. I must have known Lee Harvey Oswald, or Ted Cruz' father?
"There are two ways to view the stars; as they really are, and as we might wish them to be." - Carl Sagan
"If an argument lasts more than five minutes, both parties are wrong" unknown
Self Taken Pictures of Wildlife
User avatar
The_Piper
 
Name: Fletch F. Fletch
Posts: 30416
Age: 49
Male

Country: Chainsaw Country
United States (us)
Print view this post

Re: Donald Trump for President!

#1586  Postby Byron » May 04, 2016 4:29 pm

I knew the Donald had game, but damn.

Swatted the brother of a two-term president; forever reduced a charismatic Type A boss to bumptious Little Marco; and now, the Waxwork's a puddle on the floor. Trump's smoked the entire GOP lineup and the party establishment's busy humping his trouserleg.

All that stands between Trump and the nuclear codes: Hillary Rodham Clinton.

# We'll meet again, don't know where, don't know when/ But I know we'll meet again, some sunny day ...
I don't believe in the no-win scenario.
Kirk, Enterprise

Ms. Lovelace © Ms. Padua, resident of 2D Goggles
User avatar
Byron
 
Posts: 12881
Male

Country: Albion
Print view this post

Re: Donald Trump for President!

#1587  Postby John Platko » May 04, 2016 4:51 pm

The_Piper wrote:
John Platko wrote:
The_Piper wrote:
John Platko wrote:

How do you know? Where was Cruz's dad at the time that photo was taken?



I don't know much about the magazine- but I seem to recall it had some remarkable success at breaking stories- they were right about Tiger Woods! They were right about O.J.'s Bruno Magli shoes. They were right about John Edwards. And if they're wrong about claims like this then big lawsuits are in their future.


That little episode in New Orleans is very interesting and I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss it. Not that I'm thinking Cruz's father had something to do with killing JFK, I'm not. But he had the right sort of background to be in that group. And it does kind-of look like him. Jefferson Morley is still trying to pry some documents from the CIA that might tell us more about this aspect of the assassination. There must be some reason why they are holding on to them so tightly.

Apparently you think that publication is a reliable source of news. It's not. Sure they can be sued, but they have good lawyers, and it's difficult to prove malice in reporting lies. They've been falsely reporting ridiculous, insane things for a long time. They'd have been put out of business decades ago if a libel lawsuit was a big deal to them. Big lawsuits are not only in their future, but in their past too.
Sure, maybe that was Ted Cruz' father with Lee Harvey Oswald. But is there anything more credible than the Enquirer reporting or even speculating about it? If it were credible, wouldn't it be a pretty big news story by now? Why do you suppose it's not?


I think it wise not to simply take the word of the National Enquirer as being truth. But they have broke stories that the more respected press missed- big stories that held up- so while I don't just swallow all the Enquirers puts out, I also don't dismiss what they say because they said it. :nono:

:scratch: I'm guessing you're not familiar with how the main st media has reported on the JFK assassination. They don't tend to be interested in stories like this - it took Oliver Stone to get the back story documents released from the government- and we still don't have all of them.

Doesn't it seem a bit odd to you that we have a photo of Oswald a few months before the assassination and we don't know who all the people in that photo are?
No that doesn't seem odd. There are pictures of me where I don't know all of the people in them too. I must have known Lee Harvey Oswald, or Ted Cruz' father?


Well I'm thinking the context matters a bit. A group of guys hanging out while the soon to be assassin of the President of the United States hands out flyers telling Americans to bud out of Cuba's business. It seems that enquiring minds would want to know who those guys are. That's on the one hand- on the other hand we have the CIA still fighting with Jefferson Morley to keep George Joannides reports about the exiled Cuban's doings in New Orleans secret. Hmmmmmm.

At least now we have Antonio Veciana telling us how he saw Oswald's meeting with the CIA ...
I like to imagine ...
User avatar
John Platko
 
Name: John Platko
Posts: 9411
Male

Country: US
United States (us)
Print view this post

Re: Donald Trump for President!

#1588  Postby Scot Dutchy » May 04, 2016 4:52 pm

Being serious now well at least trying where could you find another Trump? He must be unique is every department of stupidity.
I cant just imagine him as president. Bush was not the brightest button but at least he listened and did what was told.
Myths in islam Women and islam Musilm opinion polls


"Religion is excellent stuff for keeping common people quiet.” — Napoleon Bonaparte
User avatar
Scot Dutchy
 
Posts: 43119
Age: 75
Male

Country: Nederland
European Union (eur)
Print view this post

Re: Donald Trump for President!

#1589  Postby Columbus » May 04, 2016 5:04 pm

Being serious now well at least trying where could you find another Trump?

Come November, you can have ours. We won't want him anymore.
Tom
Nothing real can be threatened
Nothing unreal exists
Herein lies the peace of God
User avatar
Columbus
 
Name: Tom
Posts: 565
Age: 65
Male

United States (us)
Print view this post

Re: Donald Trump for President!

#1590  Postby Scot Dutchy » May 04, 2016 5:05 pm

Columbus wrote:
Being serious now well at least trying where could you find another Trump?

Come November, you can have ours. We won't want him anymore.
Tom


Oh please! Dont put that curse on us.
Myths in islam Women and islam Musilm opinion polls


"Religion is excellent stuff for keeping common people quiet.” — Napoleon Bonaparte
User avatar
Scot Dutchy
 
Posts: 43119
Age: 75
Male

Country: Nederland
European Union (eur)
Print view this post

Re: Donald Trump for President!

#1591  Postby Teague » May 04, 2016 5:11 pm

Byron wrote:I knew the Donald had game, but damn.

Swatted the brother of a two-term president; forever reduced a charismatic Type A boss to bumptious Little Marco; and now, the Waxwork's a puddle on the floor. Trump's smoked the entire GOP lineup and the party establishment's busy humping his trouserleg.

All that stands between Trump and the nuclear codes: Hillary Rodham Clinton.

# We'll meet again, don't know where, don't know when/ But I know we'll meet again, some sunny day ...


Trump Presidency.....

Putin: @PutinMachoMan Trumps wife, Melania is an ugly bitch who love Russian cock! #MelaniaForPutin

Trump: @TrumpChumpDump I have big hands you dummy! .....

Image
User avatar
Teague
THREAD STARTER
 
Posts: 10072

United Kingdom (uk)
Print view this post

Re: Donald Trump for President!

#1592  Postby NineOneFour » May 04, 2016 6:00 pm

Teague wrote:
NineOneFour wrote:
Onyx8 wrote:Better Trump than Cruz.


It is quite disturbing how both insane and yet accurate that statement is.


What I don't understand is, or do but find unbelievable, is how the GOP couldn't get a decent front man. Do they know elections run every 4 years? Their entire field were a bunch of morons - there wasn't one guy in there (or girl) that was even half qualified to run the country and the guy in front if the least qualified. When running his campaign he was asked what his ground game was in one state and his reply "what's a ground game"? Then in response to foreign policy, "Oh I'll learn all about that after I become president"

And this was the best the GOP could churn out? I'm thinking back to poor Jeb Bush and he seems like the most sane out of the lot of them (and reasonable). So Cruz is out and Trump is going to go ahead and be the nominee and if there isn't a 3rd party about to form I'd be massively surprised. Where does the GOP go from here?


They tried. They poured 130 million into Jeb's campaign. The problem is, that with Citizens United, there are enough billionaires around able to finance their own pet candidates in opposition to the establishment's pick.

There won't be a third party of any consequence. What we are witnessing is the death throes of the current Republican Party. It will simply transform over the next 15 years or so into a different party with different ideology, but it will still be called "The Republican Party". Just like the Democratic Party in 1928 bore little resemblance to the Democratic Party in 1947 and the Republican Party of 1957 bore little resemblance to the Republican Party in 1996.
Citizen of the (future) People's Social Democratic Republic of Cascadia.
cascadianow.org

For help managing Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD), go here. I am able to manage it, and so can you.
User avatar
NineOneFour
 
Name: Yes, I'm an asshole.
Posts: 20906
Age: 54
Male

Country: Cascadia
Jolly Roger (arr)
Print view this post

Re: Donald Trump for President!

#1593  Postby NineOneFour » May 04, 2016 6:01 pm

John Platko wrote::scratch: Is Trump right about Cruz's dad hanging with Lee Harvey Oswald a month or so before the assassination?

From

Mr. Trump’s comments also came on the day of the Indiana primary, where the Republican front-runner can effectively close out any chance for Mr. Cruz to deny him the presidential nomination.

In the interview, Mr. Trump was asked to respond to the elder Mr. Cruz’s invocations of God as he urged evangelical voters to support his son, suggesting the alternative could mean the “destruction of America.”

“I think it’s a disgrace that he’s allowed to do it. I think it’s a disgrace that he’s allowed to say it,” Mr. Trump said, before adding, “And, you know, his father was with Lee Harvey Oswald prior to Oswald’s being — you know, shot. I mean, the whole thing is ridiculous. What is this, right, prior to his being shot, and nobody brings it up. They don’t even talk about that. That was reported and nobody talks about it. But I think it’s horrible.”

He went on, “What was he doing with Lee Harvey Oswald shortly before the death, before the shooting? It’s horrible.”


I :dunno: what to make of all of that but I find it remarkable that we don't know who all the people in that picture with Oz are.

:coffee:


No.
Citizen of the (future) People's Social Democratic Republic of Cascadia.
cascadianow.org

For help managing Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD), go here. I am able to manage it, and so can you.
User avatar
NineOneFour
 
Name: Yes, I'm an asshole.
Posts: 20906
Age: 54
Male

Country: Cascadia
Jolly Roger (arr)
Print view this post

Re: Donald Trump for President!

#1594  Postby NineOneFour » May 04, 2016 6:04 pm

Scot Dutchy wrote:Being serious now well at least trying where could you find another Trump? He must be unique is every department of stupidity.
I cant just imagine him as president. Bush was not the brightest button but at least he listened and did what was told.


Here you go.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gert-Jan_Segers
Citizen of the (future) People's Social Democratic Republic of Cascadia.
cascadianow.org

For help managing Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD), go here. I am able to manage it, and so can you.
User avatar
NineOneFour
 
Name: Yes, I'm an asshole.
Posts: 20906
Age: 54
Male

Country: Cascadia
Jolly Roger (arr)
Print view this post

Re: Donald Trump for President!

#1595  Postby Animavore » May 04, 2016 6:06 pm

Wow! A Fox News piece exhorting Republicans to vote Hilary!
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2016/05/ ... D=ref_fark
A most evolved electron.
User avatar
Animavore
 
Name: The Scribbler
Posts: 45108
Age: 45
Male

Ireland (ie)
Print view this post

Re: Donald Trump for President!

#1596  Postby CdesignProponentsist » May 04, 2016 6:11 pm

All I have to say at this juncture is "Hillary, DON'T FUCK THIS UP!"
"Things don't need to be true, as long as they are believed" - Alexander Nix, CEO Cambridge Analytica
User avatar
CdesignProponentsist
 
Posts: 12711
Age: 56
Male

Country: California
United States (us)
Print view this post

Re: Donald Trump for President!

#1597  Postby NineOneFour » May 04, 2016 6:12 pm

Teague wrote:
Byron wrote:I knew the Donald had game, but damn.

Swatted the brother of a two-term president; forever reduced a charismatic Type A boss to bumptious Little Marco; and now, the Waxwork's a puddle on the floor. Trump's smoked the entire GOP lineup and the party establishment's busy humping his trouserleg.

All that stands between Trump and the nuclear codes: Hillary Rodham Clinton.

# We'll meet again, don't know where, don't know when/ But I know we'll meet again, some sunny day ...


Trump Presidency.....

Putin: @PutinMachoMan Trumps wife, Melania is an ugly bitch who love Russian cock! #MelaniaForPutin

Trump: @TrumpChumpDump I have big hands you dummy! .....

Image



America under Trump 2017

Image



America under Trump 2018

Image



America under Trump 2019

Image


America under Trump 2020

Image


Trump gets re-elected in 2020, rest of world nukes America from orbit. It was the only way to be safe.

Image
Citizen of the (future) People's Social Democratic Republic of Cascadia.
cascadianow.org

For help managing Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD), go here. I am able to manage it, and so can you.
User avatar
NineOneFour
 
Name: Yes, I'm an asshole.
Posts: 20906
Age: 54
Male

Country: Cascadia
Jolly Roger (arr)
Print view this post

Re: Donald Trump for President!

#1598  Postby NineOneFour » May 04, 2016 6:16 pm

Animavore wrote:Wow! A Fox News piece exhorting Republicans to vote Hilary!
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2016/05/ ... D=ref_fark


Three of McCain's campaign managers have now endorsed Hillary...
Citizen of the (future) People's Social Democratic Republic of Cascadia.
cascadianow.org

For help managing Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD), go here. I am able to manage it, and so can you.
User avatar
NineOneFour
 
Name: Yes, I'm an asshole.
Posts: 20906
Age: 54
Male

Country: Cascadia
Jolly Roger (arr)
Print view this post

Re: Donald Trump for President!

#1599  Postby Columbus » May 04, 2016 6:26 pm

CdesignProponentsist wrote:All I have to say at this juncture is "Hillary, DON'T FUCK THIS UP!"

At this point Slick Willie could post a video of Hillary and Chelsea in hot lezbo action and she'd still win.
:cheers:
Tom
Nothing real can be threatened
Nothing unreal exists
Herein lies the peace of God
User avatar
Columbus
 
Name: Tom
Posts: 565
Age: 65
Male

United States (us)
Print view this post

Re: Donald Trump for President!

#1600  Postby NineOneFour » May 04, 2016 6:29 pm

Citizen of the (future) People's Social Democratic Republic of Cascadia.
cascadianow.org

For help managing Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD), go here. I am able to manage it, and so can you.
User avatar
NineOneFour
 
Name: Yes, I'm an asshole.
Posts: 20906
Age: 54
Male

Country: Cascadia
Jolly Roger (arr)
Print view this post

PreviousNext

Return to News, Politics & Current Affairs

Who is online

Users viewing this topic: No registered users and 4 guests