Dutch election

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Dutch election

#1  Postby Simon_Gardner » Feb 28, 2010 9:42 am

Radio Netherlands Worldwide wrote:Wilders, drugs, green issues dominate Dutch local elections

Geert Wilders, the Amsterdam North-South metro line, drugs and the environment, these are the main themes in the campaigns for the Dutch local elections to be held on the third of March.

This year, the local elections have taken on added significance because of the fall of the cabinet, which is still fresh in voters’ memories. The government crisis is expected to affect the results in the local elections. National politicians are sure to regard the outcome as indicative of their popularity.

Surveys show that the electorate does not feel very enthusiastic about the local elections. Research bureau BMC says that less than half of all voters will actually cast their ballots. The main reason is that Dutch voters don’t take much interest in local politics. Also, public confidence in politicians is low.

The main themes
A number of themes will play a major role in these local elections. Radio Netherlands Worldwide has made a list:

1. Geert Wilders’ Freedom Party (PVV)
Geert Wilders’ PVV will dominate the local elections. The party will for the first time field candidates in two towns. Opinion polls suggest that the party will win about 30 percent of the votes in Almere compared to 15.5 percent in The Hague.

Sietse Fritsma is PVV party leader in the nation’s political capital:

“Some Hague districts are a shambles. There are major issues concerning Moroccan mob violence, security issues. Some people are too scared to even walk their dogs. We need to implement a zero-tolerance policy in these districts. Get people who commit crimes off the streets. You have got to be on top of things.”

The party wants to fund the increase in security by introducing drastic cuts to cultural subsidies and integration projects. The other political parties have fiercely criticised the proposed cuts. The PVV’s plans have even prompted the formation of a Stop Wilders Now party.

2. Major projects
In many towns infrastructural projects are the focus of election campaigns. For example the planned dual carriageway in the Frisian town of Tytsjerksteradiel and the multi-billion euro North-South metro line in Amsterdam. The Red Amsterdam Nu (Save Amsterdam Now) party is trying to halt construction of the underground line.

Nelly Frijda of Red Amsterdam:

“We have had enough of all the megalomaniac projects undertaken in Amsterdam. We don’t need any of them. This is not New York. Amsterdam has districts. New York has them too, only these so-called boroughs are just as big as the entire city of Amsterdam. It just makes no sense.”

3. Drug policy
At a national level, the debate about condoning the use of soft drugs has been going on for several years. However, this debate is also conducted at a local level wherever residents are being directly confronted with drug-related problems. Some parties want to close down the so-called coffee shops (where the sale of cannabis is condoned, ed.). Others feel they should be kept open or even expanded. In Haarlemmermeer – a municipality of about 143.000 residents – the Labour Party is arguing for opening a third coffee shop. Local Labour Party leader Bert Van der Vliet:

“There is great demand for soft drugs. It is much better to regulate and control the trade than have it go underground, in which case there is no way to prevent children from buying them. It would also be impossible to monitor quality. We would much rather impose restrictions to keep this under control.”

In the Netherlands, local councils decide whether to keep the coffee shops open or not. Local politicians in Roosendaal and Bergen Op Zoom decided to close the coffee shops. The towns were flooded by drug tourists from south of the border.

4. The local environment and environmental policy
The party manifestos of the local parties have quite a lot to say about the local environment and environmental policy. Some parties put emphasis on green rooftops and facades, air quality and promoting public transport. Research carried out by the University of Wageningen shows that 85 percent of all party manifestos include a ‘green’ chapter.

Researcher Peter Visschedijk:

“In the past few years much attention has been paid to the influence of a green environment on the quality of life. Local politicians are particularly close to the population, and in the Netherlands they are responsible for the quality of the local environment. It’s only logical local that manifestos should reflect that.”

Research shows that austerity measures do not play a prominent role in these local elections, which is strange in view of the fact that local councils will have to cut millions of euros from their budgets as a result of the economic crisis. Clearly that isn’t a vote puller for political parties during election time.


http://www.rnw.nl/english/article/wilders-drugs-green-issues-dominate-Dutch-local-elections
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Re: Dutch election

#2  Postby NineOneFour » Feb 28, 2010 10:53 am

Interesting. I'd like to see what some Dutch members have to say.
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Re: Dutch election

#3  Postby Daan » Feb 28, 2010 1:55 pm

Yesterday, there was a discussion program on the television, about the situation in Almere. Almere and The Hague are the only cities where the PVV of Geert Wilders will be active. It was really awful to see the rise of fascism so clearly. Businessmen who support the anti-Wilders NDP-party have been threatened with the demolition of their shops. Election posters of all non-PVV parties have been removed and all replaced by PVV posters. Skinheads try to turn Almere into a PVV-city. 2/3 of the population consider voting PVV and 1/3 intend to do that. There were a couple of would-be PVV voters at the discussion. One lady said that the lack of respect on the street, people not greeting each other, was her reason for voting Wilders. Others said that they didn't agree with the racism of Wilders, but wanted something to be done to 'the problems.' The typical fascist way of denying violence, but still supporting it anyway.
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Re: Dutch election

#4  Postby RichardPrins » Feb 28, 2010 2:01 pm

Populist nativism is in fashion. The Dutch got Wilders, the Brits Nick Griffin, the US gets Palin and the teabaggers. :mrgreen:
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Re: Dutch election

#5  Postby Simon_Gardner » Feb 28, 2010 2:04 pm

RichardPrins wrote:Populist nativism is in fashion. The Dutch got Wilders, the Brits Nick Griffin, the US gets Palin and the teabaggers. :mrgreen:

and Canada got?





... The Olympics?
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Re: Dutch election

#6  Postby Daan » Feb 28, 2010 2:06 pm

And Harper.
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Re: Dutch election

#7  Postby Simon_Gardner » Feb 28, 2010 2:07 pm

Daan wrote:And Harper.

I was too polite to mention.
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Re: Dutch election

#8  Postby RichardPrins » Feb 28, 2010 2:08 pm

Simon_Gardner wrote:
RichardPrins wrote:Populist nativism is in fashion. The Dutch got Wilders, the Brits Nick Griffin, the US gets Palin and the teabaggers. :mrgreen:

and Canada got?

... The Olympics?

Yes, there's that. ;) On the provincial level we've got Bloc Québecois. Separatist and nationalist.

Harper's just a conservative. More Tory-like.

No worries, I'm Dutch, not Canadian. I just live here. ;)
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Re: Dutch election

#9  Postby Daan » Feb 28, 2010 3:13 pm

You wanted to see the winter snow?
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Re: Dutch election

#10  Postby tatertail » Feb 28, 2010 11:39 pm

Official card ... wait, no I have a passport ... carrying Dutch person, here.

There's a definite national bent to the municipal elections, and in fact the fall of the cabinet can be linked to posturing over these very same elections. That's right, people living and/or dying in Afghanistan is nowhere near as important as election results back home, which might affect a politician's career, which is worth far more than even a thousand lives in Afghanistan. Hard but simple truth.

It makes me want to apologize on their behalf, but selfish people don't deserve that from me.

The projected turnout fits in a trend of decreasing participation which started ever since they quit fining people for not voting several decades ago. Out of four election types we have, municipal ones come second in turnout. The other two are of highly questionable relevance, and not even worth discussing. National ones might actually be up this year, I'm really hoping for a small miracle there.

The public's apathy is made by the politicians themselves, though. It's been that way all along, due to actions such as telling the people they voted incorrectly in the EU constitution referendum and rewarding them with not giving them one ever since, because you can't trust the people with that much democracy. They never seem to vote correctly. It's interesting to note that the one party which actually really wants more referenda is rewarded by having its leader polling as the least mistrusted PM-candidate, according to saturday's news.

They've also for years labeled as racist anyone talking about specific ethnic groups with specific problems, even where such problems are bloody obvious. If you call it racist long enough, racists will eventually decide it's the sort of thing they need to build their platform on, and they sure did. Worse, racism which was attested got ignored in many cases, because of the complete refusal of the establishment to touch any race issues at all, unless quickly disposing of them.

Lately, they no longer ban you for remarking that someone might in fact be black, but sadly Geert Wilders is the only one who really talks about race issues, and I wish someone a little better would manage to attract as much attention, but with a different message. Even just requiring people to learn Dutch is hard to make happen, and the PvdA (our version of Labour) was even posting election material in Turkish in one area. Maybe more areas, I wouldn't be too surprised.

I'm just despairing at the "choice" that I have. It seems I can choose between status quo, status upheaval, and irrelevant other party. The upheaval can be pretty bad, too. I wouldn't put it past Wilders to use the Moroccan and Turkish habit of assigning nationality to anyone of their blood, as an excuse to "send them back", despite the fact that a lot of these people are actually born here, have made babies here, and can even be married to someone who has only the Dutch nationality.

A lot of people seem to think that you can "renounce" a nationality just by proclaiming it officially. The Moroccan, Turkish, Spanish, Portuguese, Italian ... and probably a lot of other governments think very differently about this. You basically have to drag the other nationality's country into a war and then commit treason against it, in most cases. This is an unreasonable demand, since it's an incitement to crime, and probably goes against the spirit of various treaties.

Wilders exerts himself in painting people with more than one nationality as an infiltrating parasite, and the message is definitely getting across. People I've known all my life are suddenly very upset at people speaking any language other than Dutch, English or some other prosperous country's language, or one which sounds like it might be Arabic. They're telling eachother that wearing a bit of cloth on the head is a great evil, and they tell me I'm naieve if I try to say things like "islam is not a race" or "not every muslim wants to kill you".

Wilders is really quite brilliant, in how he manages to perceive that gut feeling of baseless paranoia and always comes out with what these people want to hear. He's actually good at what he does, and a lot of the people who wouldn't vote for him, still think he's got a point. This matters when he tries to create that upheaval later, since people won't oppose his suggestions very hard.

I do think he's got a good reason to complain and suggest radical changes in policy* but I don't like the way he phrases his complaints and the sort of changes he seems to suggest. I do think it would be wonderful to teach everyone who lives here our language, since that would allow all of them access to all our media and information, which can often be very liberating or save a lot of money. I'm all for more active policing, but also very much wish for more effort in preventing and responding effectively before a crisis, which is a lot cheaper than cost-cutting measures which mostly hit police patrols, neighbourhood support projects and child welfare organizations. I think Wilders just wants more liberty in using pepperspray and truncheons.

One last thing before I stop making a big wall of text, I wish our politicians were capable of considering how well their idea worked in the places where it was tried. PvdA has suggested a "cordon sanitaire" against Wilders' PVV after the Belgian model, where Vlaams Blok^WBelang has grown steadily while the establishment shut them out from government. Or how Switzerland has consistently been prosperous despite having a right to referendum. I still don't really know who to vote for, come national election time, but I'll be voting local this week. The national parties are uninspiring, except one which inspires me to run away screaming.


* Wilders only very rarely gets specific enough that you could pin him down on what he said. It's part of his strategy, to deny his opponents free ammo packs. Very obviously, this is a crippling tactic to lazy reactive politicians with one eye fixed on the polls they say they're ignoring.
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Re: Dutch election

#11  Postby Simon_Gardner » Mar 01, 2010 2:00 am

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Well I for one, found that an interesting read tatertail.
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Re: Dutch election

#12  Postby NineOneFour » Mar 01, 2010 2:05 am

Simon_Gardner wrote:Image Image Image

Well I for one, found that an interesting read tatertail.



I did too, but I'm fairly depressed at Wilders's popularity.
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Re: Dutch election

#13  Postby Daan » Mar 01, 2010 1:20 pm

Wilders is part of a European wide phenomenon. A lot of migrants have moved into Europe and large parts of the European population doesn't like that. It might get completely out of hand. I think it can only get worse in Holland if other European countries also move more towards anti-migrant populism. All European countries have successful radical right-wing political parties at the moment, while it used to be far less so only ten years ago. Germany has the NDP, Britain BNP, France FN, Belgium VB, in Spain and Italy the entire right-wing is radical nuts. Sweden has very recently a successful anti-muslim party. We got Denmark, Norway, Switzerland, and what about Eastern European countries. Fascism could be the future of the entire continent, with anti-immigration as major theme.
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Re: Dutch election

#14  Postby Scot Dutchy » Mar 01, 2010 2:49 pm

Yes thanks tatertail into one angle of the elections.
I agree Daan this does tend to be at the moment to be a European phenomenon but further than that it is does not mean much. Once again it is about figures. Listening to the fascist elements in Europe that muslims from non-western countries are flooding Europe which is far from the truth.

Another point is how successful are they? They make a lot of noise and try and cause as much trouble as possible egged on by the right wing press. The same is valid here just read the quality newspapers they do not ignore Wilders but they do try and keep it in perspective. Wilders is going to make an impression but how big? Big enough to rule a town council? I dont think so. Big enough to rule a country? Of course not. I am not depressed when reading about Wilders he is a clown and we all know that. The only thing I do think should be made more clearly which parties would work with the PVV. Up till now PvdA and D'66 say defintely no while the CDA and VVD are undecided.

The PVV is a Mayfly just like so many before it. The most recent is the LPF and they even had a martyr and where are they now? Exactly.
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Re: Dutch election

#15  Postby tatertail » Mar 01, 2010 3:41 pm

Scot Dutchy wrote:The only thing I do think should be made more clearly which parties would work with the PVV. Up till now PvdA and D'66 say defintely no while the CDA and VVD are undecided.


I trust the PvdA like I trust a used car salesman, except I can at least sue a used car salesman for breach of contract. The attitude of CDA and VVD is basically, to wait with deciding how much they oppose PVV until after the election results are in. But that's more honest than first making a lot of noise and changing your mind after it starts getting impractical to keep your word.

D66 I do believe would keep their word, but that might just get them more time in opposition.

The PVV is a Mayfly just like so many before it. The most recent is the LPF and they even had a martyr and where are they now? Exactly.


Don't forget that Geert Wilders has yet to be shot dead. The one thing that really destroyed LPF was infighting between everyone who used Fortuyn as their sock-puppet from before his corpse was cold. Listening to them, the only conclusion I could draw was that if they were all right about what he would have wanted, Fortuyn sure had a lot of voices in his head.

My point is that as long as the actual figurehead is not a corpse, Wilders can decide for his party what is right and true. I'm not aware of anyone in his party who manages to steal his spotlight, so whatever he says is the party line because he said it. Maybe there's some internal discussion before that, but I haven't noticed anyone in PVV opposing Wilders at all. It's probably against party policy to disagree publicly.

He is using the niche created by Fortuyn, but don't forget that unlike Fortuyn, Wilders is a career politician who spent a lot of time among the establishment. He had worked with the VVD for over a decade before forming his own party, so he's no stranger to the political game. VVD basically tried to shut him up by ejecting him from their party platform, and now his party is due to become bigger than theirs. This is not a jingoistic outsider rushing in to an arena he does not know or understand. He's a jingoistic insider who knows exactly how to mess up the standard tactics of his ex-allies.
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Re: Dutch election

#16  Postby Scot Dutchy » Mar 01, 2010 6:12 pm

He's a jingoistic insider who knows exactly how to mess up the standard tactics of his ex-allies.


Thats exactly what he is nothing more and nothing less.
Remember who joined up with the LPF and how long did it last? CDA never to be trusted. The best cabinet is one without CDA.
BTW LPF needed Fortuyn's death. It gave them a massive boost and removed a lose cannon.
Dont try and read to much into Wilders. He maybe was part of the establishment but not anymore he has put himself off-side.
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Re: Dutch election

#17  Postby Simon_Gardner » Mar 04, 2010 2:36 am

AP wrote:Dutch anti-immigration party gains ground in vote

By Toby Sterling

AMSTERDAM — Early returns in Dutch local elections showed an anti-immigrant, anti-Islam party making big gains in a result seen as a possible foreshadowing of national elections in June.

“We’re going to take the Netherlands back from the leftist elite, that coddles criminals and supports Islamization,” said Freedom Party leader Geert Wilders early Thursday.

Wednesday’s voting in 394 cities in theory elects city councils to deal with matters such as parking fees and taxes on dog ownership. But with national elections slated for June 9, Dutch media and politicians are treating the event as a dress rehearsal.

The Freedom Party was leading handily with half the votes counted in the medium-sized city of Almere, around 20 kilometers (12 miles) northeast of Amsterdam.

Voting was conducted with paper and pencil, and full results won’t be certified until Friday.

Wilders has drawn comparisons with populists such as Jorg Haider in Austria and Jean-Marie Le Pen in France. He is facing prosecution for allegedly inciting racial hatred with remarks that include describing the Quran a “fascist” book and calling for it to be banned.

His relatively new party is only running in Almere and The Hague, where it is expected to finish second.

An opinion poll commissioned by state broadcaster NOS found that if national elections had been held Wednesday, the result would have been inconclusive.

The country’s two largest parties, the conservative Christian Democrats and left-leaning Labor, both lost ground. They have sworn not to join forces again after Labor walked out of their coalition Cabinet last month over Dutch involvement in Afghanistan.

Prime Minister Jan Peter Balkenende’s centrist government collapsed, forcing the recall of 1,600 Dutch soldiers in the province of Uruzgan at the end of their mission in August.

Immigration issues have dominated the Dutch domestic political landscape for a decade. Muslims make up about 6 percent of the population, and Wilders says their presence threatens the Dutch way of life.

Political observers said that, with the Christian Democrats and Labor at odds, and other parties split equally between left and right, it may prove extremely difficult for either side to build a workable coalition.

Most left-leaning parties have said flatly they will not work with Wilders, whose party is now the third-largest nationally according to the NOS poll.


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Re: Dutch election

#18  Postby Scot Dutchy » Mar 04, 2010 1:34 pm

So the local elections are over. They actually give an idea of how things could turn out after the national ones.
The Hague for instance is where the PVV took part and the result:

PvdA: 10 seats
VVD: 7 seats
CDA: 3 seats
SP: 2 seats
GL: 3 seats
D66: 6 seats
PVV: 8 seats
extra: 6 seats

It is very obvious that PVV will not be part of the controlling city council. In fact PvdA does not even have to rely on the CDA to form the council.
This is also valid voor the other town where the PVV took part Almere a new town on the polder next to Amsterdam.
Pvv may take a fair number of seats but that does not guarentee power.

That is my point Wilders can shout and make demands but that is about it.
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Re: Dutch election

#19  Postby Simon_Gardner » Mar 04, 2010 1:39 pm

Radio Netherlands Worldwide wrote:Dutch local elections - the results

Published on 4 March 2010 - 12:06pm

The big winners in the Netherlands local elections on Wednesday: the D66 democrats and Geert Wilders’ anti-Islam Freedom Party, which made major gains. The GreenLeft party also did well. But the biggest percentage of votes went to independent parties and candidates.

The Christian Democrats (CDA) and Labour Party, the two parties responsible for the fall of the Dutch cabinet two weeks ago, both lost a large number of seats in the municipal council.The biggest loser of the night was the Socialist Party, which saw much of its popularity of four years ago vanish.

The conservative VVD, which had done badly in a series of opinion polls, has more or less regained the position it held after the municipal elections of 2006. General public dissatisfaction with the larger established parties was expressed in the large proportion of votes - more than 25 percent of the total - which went to local independent candidates and parties. However, individually, these local parties failed to attract enough voters to become a force to reckon with.

Largest Labour... just

The Labour Party remains the largest national party in local politics. Although it sustained severe losses, the damage was less than had been expected. The party received 16 percent of the votes, five percent less than in 2006. However, Labour Party leader Wouter Bos remained optimistic. The election in 2006 was a “monumental victory” that could not be equalled, he argued, adding that he believed these results were a leap forward.

At the Christian Democratic headquarters the tone was less cheerful. “We would have liked to see better results,” Christian Democrat leader and caretaker Prime Minister Jan Peter Balkenende commented.

The Freedom Party of controversial politician Geert Wilders fielded candidates in two cities only, Almere and The Hague. In Almere - a new city not far from Amsterdam - his anti-Islam party became the biggest party. In The Hague it came in second after the Labour Party. More about the Freedom Party victory.



Preliminary results*

Code: Select all
Independent parties/candidates                    28%
Labour Party (PvdA)                                      16%
Christian Democrats (CDA)                          15%
conservative VVD                                        15%
D66 democrats                                              8%
Green Left                                                     7%
Socialist Party (SP)                                         4%
Christian Union (CU)                                    4%
Freedom Party (PVV)**                                  1%
Proud of the Netherlands (TON)                    1%
fundamentalist Christians (SGP)                     1%


* Results as of 4 March - 12 CET, not all votes have been counted. Source: http://www.vk.nl

** Freedom party was on the ballot in two cities only.


http://www.rnw.nl/english/article/dutch-local-election-results
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Re: Dutch election

#20  Postby NineOneFour » Mar 05, 2010 9:44 am

Wow, Wilders failed to win his local town. Maybe he really is just a one-time flash in the pan.
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