e-petition 'Stop FGM in the UK Now' reaches 86,113 sigs.

Oeditor · **#201** by **Oeditor** » Apr 16, 2014 1:54 pm

I may not have been concentrating on all the reports, but isn't this the first time that the alleged offense has been openly described as reinfibulation (not that it could really have been much else)? Now we know, it makes any talk of cosmetic labiaplasty irrelevant and of "repair" very dubious.

quisquose · **#202** by **quisquose** » Apr 16, 2014 2:22 pm

This case does make me wonder about the point that Nicko raised earlier.

Are cosmetic surgeons performing - and openly advertising that they perform - procedures that are explicitly defined as illegal under the Act when they do labiaplasties?

Or are voluntary labiaplasties okay?

In which case did the patient in this case object, and was forced to be reinfibulated against her will, or at least without her consent? Were there midwives present who objected?

Given our piss-poor record on being able to stop this practice, and zero prosecutions, it beggars belief to imagine that they might have brought the first case to court that isn't a open and shut one.

Oeditor · **#203** by **Oeditor** » Apr 16, 2014 2:59 pm

quisquose wrote:In which case did the patient in this case object, and was forced to be reinfibulated against her will, or at least without her consent? Were there midwives present who objected?

Given our piss-poor record on being able to stop this practice, and zero prosecutions, it beggars belief to imagine that they might have brought the first case to court that isn't a open and shut one.

It may well have been a midwife who objected and blew the whistle. As for a risky court case, a cynic might wonder whether losing it wouldn't exactly upset the apple-cart. Whereas winning might well.

Nicko · **#204** by **Nicko** » Apr 16, 2014 3:17 pm

quisquose wrote:This case does make me wonder about the point that Nicko raised earlier.

Are cosmetic surgeons performing - and openly advertising that they perform - procedures that are explicitly defined as illegal under the Act when they do labiaplasties?

Or are voluntary labiaplasties okay?

The FGM Act does not seem to have any wiggle room at all. If you remove tissue from the labia, you are committing FGM.

quisquose wrote:In which case did the patient in this case object, and was forced to be reinfibulated against her will, or at least without her consent? Were there midwives present who objected?

We don't know. Hence the various pointless hypotheticals people in this thread - including myself - have been indulging in.

quisquose wrote:Given our piss-poor record on being able to stop this practice, and zero prosecutions, it beggars belief to imagine that they might have brought the first case to court that isn't a open and shut one.

Or else they just can't find any women willing to make a complaint. This could mean there is no FGM in the UK. It could mean the women it happens to are cool with it. It could mean that the women it happens to live in such constant terror of their own families - including their mothers, grandmothers and aunts - that they don't report.

We don't know, because they don't report.

This is actually one of the reasons I posted the article on labiaplasty that I posted earlier. The surgeons performing them are blatantly in breach of the Act, but there are no prosecutions because there are no complaints. Well, unless something goes wrong and they get slapped with FGM in addition to the normal malpractice suit.

quisquose · **#205** by **quisquose** » Apr 16, 2014 3:29 pm

Nicko wrote:This is actually one of the reasons I posted the article on labiaplasty that I posted earlier. The surgeons performing them are blatantly in breach of the Act, but there are no prosecutions because there are no complaints. Well, unless something goes wrong and they get slapped with FGM in addition to the normal malpractice suit.

Labiaplasty is available on the NHS.

As I said before the "get out of jail card" in The Act is:

(a)a surgical operation on a girl which is necessary for her physical or mental health

"I wanted it doing. It was my choice. It makes me feel better about myself." These might all be valid defences.

Nicko · **#206** by **Nicko** » Apr 16, 2014 3:53 pm

quisquose wrote:
Nicko wrote:This is actually one of the reasons I posted the article on labiaplasty that I posted earlier. The surgeons performing them are blatantly in breach of the Act, but there are no prosecutions because there are no complaints. Well, unless something goes wrong and they get slapped with FGM in addition to the normal malpractice suit.

Labiaplasty is available on the NHS.

As I said before the "get out of jail card" in The Act is:

(a)a surgical operation on a girl which is necessary for her physical or mental health

"I wanted it doing. It was my choice. It makes me feel better about myself." These might all be valid defences.

Whereas they are not valid reasons to accept FGM because ...

Alan B · **#207** by **Alan B** » Apr 16, 2014 5:15 pm

If this case does nothing else, it will make surgeons more wary of 're-infibulation' after childbirth.
This could have the effect of infibulation 'repair' by the non-medically qualified 'backstreet' practitioners (after the woman has been discharged from hospital) to become more easily detectable since it could be made a duty of the surgeon to report a case of FGM in his/her care. The patient could be then be kept under discrete observation by her local GP and if she has been re-infibulated an investigation should result in someone being charged, perhaps with a greater chance of success.

Not perfect, but it could be a step towards greater awareness and certainty of conviction of the perpetrator.

quisquose · **#208** by **quisquose** » Apr 17, 2014 10:51 am

Telegraph blog:

FGM: Why have we had to wait until now for a single prosecution?

Martha Gill wrote:And I can’t believe that those practicing FGM are all that efficient at keeping it secret. It’s no slickly run undercover operation, just a collection family members and bent medics. A short while ago one man mistakenly contacted an FGM helpline to request the procedure for his two daughters. Hardly a case for Sherlock Holmes.

So why no prosecutions? If we’re still tiptoeing around this crime for reasons of cultural sensitivity it needs to stop. Moral relativism has long been thrown out as a sensible argument. One person taking a knife to a young girl's genitals is a crime. A million people doing it doesn’t make it culture.

More here

Laughing at the bolded bit.

DougC · **#209** by **DougC** » May 09, 2014 6:15 pm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-27348776

B.B.C. Article
Female genital mutilation: Woman arrested at Heathrow
A woman has been arrested at Heathrow Airport on suspicion of conspiracy to commit female genital mutilation (FGM).
The 38-year-old was arrested at 18:30 BST on 8 May after she arrived at the west London airport on a flight from Sierra Leone.
A 13-year-old Sierra-Leonean girl travelling with the woman was taken into the care of social services.
The woman, who was born in Sierra Leone, is being held in custody at a west London police station.
Officers said the teenage girl was a relative of the arrested woman, but they were not disclosing how they were related.

(Continues)

chairman bill · **#210** by **chairman bill** » Jul 22, 2014 9:33 am

Well this petition seems to have had the desired effect (at least so far), though of course the powers that be won't countenance the banning of all forms of child genital mutilation for fear of being called anti-semites. FGM is categorised as 'cultural' rather than 'religious', and so is fair game. If the Koran said it was the done thing, government would be doing bugger all about it.

Parents who allow female genital mutilation will be prosecuted
Cameron pledges tougher law as study reveals 137,000 girls and women in England and Wales have been mutilated
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/jul/22/parents-allow-female-genital-mutilation-prosecuted-cameron-law

Parents will be prosecuted if they fail to prevent their daughter being cut, and all victims of female genital mutilation (FGM) will get lifelong anonymity, David Cameron will say on Tuesday.

As the prime minister hosts a Girl Summit with Unicef aimed at mobilising domestic and international efforts to end FGM and child marriage, new measures will be announced aimed at ending the practices "once and for all".

The announcement comes the day after it emerged that the number of women living in England and Wales who have been subjected to FGM is twice as high as previously thought. A new study reveals more than 137,000 women in England and Wales are living with the consequences of FGM. The number has significantly increased in the past 10 years as women flee war-torn countries to find safety in Britain, according to the report from City University and the human rights group Equality Now. (cont)

quisquose · **#211** by **quisquose** » Jul 22, 2014 9:36 am

chairman bill wrote:If the Koran said it was the done thing, government would be doing bugger all about it.

"I'd like to start a religion. That's where the money is!"

Alan B · **#212** by **Alan B** » Jul 22, 2014 10:24 am

chairman bill wrote:Well this petition seems to have had the desired effect (at least so far),<snip>

And about time too - 30 years late, but better late than never, I suppose.

What I would also like to see as part of this legislation is the acknowlegement that reconstructive surgery would be available on the NHS for those unfortunate girls/women who are still suffering from the effects of FGM.
See post 118:
http://www.rationalskepticism.org/news-politics/e-petition-stop-fgm-in-the-uk-now-reaches-86-113-sigs-t42656-100.html#p1923473

e-petition 'Stop FGM in the UK Now' reaches 86,113 sigs.

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