Acetone wrote:

Arjan Dirkse wrote:

Acetone wrote:

Arjan Dirkse wrote:That's about 3 times the number of people in MH17, that plane that was shut down. And yet here in the Netherlands we had an outpouring of public grief and outrage over the plane and not much over Gaza.

Regardless of who is to blame: let's just remember this is a tragedy, and behave and communicate accordingly.

Where's the outrage for the people being killed by Ukraine? Oh wait we support Ukraine so they are called collateral, always so confusing.

Them damn zionist Jews though.

What are you saying, are you assuming I don't feel sorry for anyone who suffers in the Ukrainian conflict? Of course I do. It's a tragedy whenever there are innocent people ending up as victims of any conflict, wherever it happens and for whatever reason.

No, I'm pointing out the disproportionate amount of anger and sadness and talk about supreme morality.

What is wrong with morality, and what does "supreme morality" mean?

And how do you mean disproportionate? You mentioned Ukraine, are there more victims in that conflict than there are in Palestine?

Arjan Dirkse wrote:

Acetone wrote:

Arjan Dirkse wrote:

Acetone wrote:
Where's the outrage for the people being killed by Ukraine? Oh wait we support Ukraine so they are called collateral, always so confusing.

Them damn zionist Jews though.

What are you saying, are you assuming I don't feel sorry for anyone who suffers in the Ukrainian conflict? Of course I do. It's a tragedy whenever there are innocent people ending up as victims of any conflict, wherever it happens and for whatever reason.

No, I'm pointing out the disproportionate amount of anger and sadness and talk about supreme morality.

What is wrong with morality, and what does "supreme morality" mean?

And how do you mean disproportionate? You mentioned Ukraine, are there more victims in that conflict than there are in Palestine?

Since around March there have been around 2000 military casualties combining both sides. From April there have been over 1000 civilian casualties as well. This doesn't account for the Ukrainians that were also displaced and those who are still seeking asylum.

When Israel is involved, though, it kicks up some sort of frenzy. Everytime. Never fails.

It would be nice if we had time to condemn every war injustice. The Israeli/Gaza conflict is just one we are aware of because a lot of us keep tabs on it and some people probably have friends from there (as Palestinians are scattered all over the globe now as a result of this war - something Israeli Jews should think twice about).

Wherever this sort of thing is happening people should speak up. I would say because there are very few Ukrainian refugees, knowledge of problems in their country is less widespread so we simply know less about it.

My bitch with the Israeli/Gaza conflict is it has been going on for many decades with absolutely no progress and I figured out over the last decade that the REAL issue is here in the US where all the money comes from. See Mikes excellent video he posted last page. I can see no resolution until the US stops its empire building. I would be quite happy to the see the UN investigate Israel for war crimes against the Palestinians, and also the US investigated for war crimes in Iran/Afghanistan. I doubt a guilty verdict would change anything, but just maybe the US could be made to stop funding bloody wars on other people's turf. And I do mean bloody.

Steve wrote:My bitch with the Israeli/Gaza conflict is it has been going on for many decades with absolutely no progress and I figured out over the last decade that the REAL issue is here in the US where all the money comes from. See Mikes excellent video he posted last page. I can see no resolution until the US stops its empire building. I would be quite happy to the see the UN investigate Israel for war crimes against the Palestinians, and also the US investigated for war crimes in Iran/Afghanistan. I doubt a guilty verdict would change anything, but just maybe the US could be made to stop funding bloody wars on other people's turf. And I do mean bloody.

Empire building?

What blatant load of bullshit.

willhud9 wrote:

Steve wrote:My bitch with the Israeli/Gaza conflict is it has been going on for many decades with absolutely no progress and I figured out over the last decade that the REAL issue is here in the US where all the money comes from. See Mikes excellent video he posted last page. I can see no resolution until the US stops its empire building. I would be quite happy to the see the UN investigate Israel for war crimes against the Palestinians, and also the US investigated for war crimes in Iran/Afghanistan. I doubt a guilty verdict would change anything, but just maybe the US could be made to stop funding bloody wars on other people's turf. And I do mean bloody.

Empire building?

What blatant load of bullshit.

Why do you think the US spends so much money, waaaaaay more than any other nation on the planet, on war. Not defense. War. The US sends in spies to knock over regimes all the damn time. This is not conspiracy, it is a madness that has entrenched itself in the US and the US feels obligated to rush into situations with war machines when it should learn the art of negotiation. Look at the police in the US - same shit. They fuck it up all the damn time and all they can think is to buy more and bigger guns. Talk about blatant bullshit.

Tin foil hat alert.

willhud9 wrote:Tin foil hat alert.

No it isn't.

This has become conversation American style. I will leave you to it.

Steve wrote:

willhud9 wrote:Tin foil hat alert.

No it isn't.

This has become conversation American style. I will leave you to it.

Yes it has. Nothing in your mini-episode had any verifiable conclusions.

You basically did this logic exercise.

Because the US spends money over seas to infiltrate foreign governments, dismantle said governments, on war, etc. the United States must then therefore be seeking to create an Empire.

You make a massive leap. Where is the conclusive evidence? You don't have any. You are making sweeping assumptions and filling in the gaps with your own biases. Sorry, but that is the definition of conspiracy theories.

So tin foil hat alert.

Wow ... what happened to the "state's rights" issues? Must be sucking eggs since your boy Cantor in VA got his ass shot down, eh?
Some people remain idiots ... Cantor, his followers, Republicans, Neo-Liberals and TeaBaggers are all among them.

--GA

To be so young and sooooo stupid, especially at this time in American History, MUST BE a luxury that few, but YOU, can afford! Feel good about yourself, idiot conservative, while you cling to your Christ and intentionally piss on all people of the lower and middle classes.

Meanwhile, I await your death.

--GA

And as for Israel? What a piss-poor, malicious, bitter little country ... with a shitty Prime Minister! I won't be paying any taxes to support Israel anytime soon. Israel and Netanyahu are war criminals. They should line up behind George W. Bush and Dick Cheney ... they should be held to account in the Hague for their crimes against Humanity. I used to support Israel, but NEVER AGAIN!

Netanyahu is a sadistic, war-mongering freak ... akin to all Republicans in America (and some Democrats).

John McCain and Palin and Romney would have been even worse!

--GA

willhud9 wrote:

Steve wrote:My bitch with the Israeli/Gaza conflict is it has been going on for many decades with absolutely no progress and I figured out over the last decade that the REAL issue is here in the US where all the money comes from. See Mikes excellent video he posted last page. I can see no resolution until the US stops its empire building. I would be quite happy to the see the UN investigate Israel for war crimes against the Palestinians, and also the US investigated for war crimes in Iran/Afghanistan. I doubt a guilty verdict would change anything, but just maybe the US could be made to stop funding bloody wars on other people's turf. And I do mean bloody.

Empire building?

What blatant load of bullshit.

I agree with Steve. A lot of the issue comes back to USA funds and that funding is there specifically to build an 'empire'. Maybe not in the sense of it has over arching power but it is definitely spending money to change the political atmosphere in certain regions to be more USA friendly through wars.

I said this way back in the thread Israel is very important strategically.

War crimes would be a huge waste of time, so I completely disagree with those. I also don't see any reason to talk about USA needing to stop funding wars because it'll be the 'right' thing to do.

However, as for what he said about what his 'bitch' is with this particular war (that it is ongoing and I assume the bloodiness)...
Like I said before the actual casualties of the war over the last 50 years is around 22,000 combined. There are ongoing wars that amounted similar death tolls in far less time and there are ongoing wars that have last just as long, some with incredibly higher death tolls and worse situations... no one seems to really ever talk about them.

Maybe a thread will start every now and then but it'll die after a page or so. Maybe the media will talk about it for a few seconds. Until of course someone from that country dies there... then there's a huge amount of attention paid for abit.

GreatApe wrote:To be so young and sooooo stupid, especially at this time in American History, MUST BE a luxury that few, but YOU, can afford! Feel good about yourself, idiot conservative, while you cling to your Christ and intentionally piss on all people of the lower and middle classes.

Meanwhile, I await your death.

--GA

Will is completely fucking wrong on this issue, but that filth was beyond the pale. Reported.

Take that shit elsewhere.

I guess the next big answer is the damage done will be xxxxxx if we (list of nations) actually do something. Same goes for the Ukraine incident.

my nagging brain red flag for the tin foil hat award is globalisation has made these event as inter related as events that led to WW1. Each tragic event is the blue touch paper for a box of fireworks going off, so the only solution to reduce damage is, do nothing.

Theres a word missing from this debate. No one, it seems from either side, wants to spell it out. Maybe, they cannot understand the word. Maybe they don't want to. Maybe it destroys their one sided thinking, and they know what it means. So, they deliberately ignore it. Maybe.

The word?

"Intent".
It is actually rocket science, and how to limit your oppositions understanding/ means of delivery. And, stopping their "intent".


Intent, its everything. Its what gets you convicted of murder, and other crimes.

Can we, as a rational website, stop the blame culture, and discuss "intent".? Or, does it all boil down to how big is your rocket?

Intent.

GreatApe wrote:To be so young and sooooo stupid, especially at this time in American History, MUST BE a luxury that few, but YOU, can afford! Feel good about yourself, idiot conservative, while you cling to your Christ and intentionally piss on all people of the lower and middle classes.

Meanwhile, I await your death.

--GA

Funny that I am neither a conservative, Christian, and I am poor.

willhud9 wrote:

Steve wrote:

willhud9 wrote:Tin foil hat alert.

No it isn't.

This has become conversation American style. I will leave you to it.

Yes it has. Nothing in your mini-episode had any verifiable conclusions.

You basically did this logic exercise.

Because the US spends money over seas to infiltrate foreign governments, dismantle said governments, on war, etc. the United States must then therefore be seeking to create an Empire.

You make a massive leap. Where is the conclusive evidence? You don't have any. You are making sweeping assumptions and filling in the gaps with your own biases. Sorry, but that is the definition of conspiracy theories.

So tin foil hat alert.

What America desperately needs is militarily reliable friends in the Middle East. Previously Sadam and the Taliban were good friends because of the Soviets. Then Mubarak, Abdullah and the various Israeli PMs because of the Oil. With the meltdown of Egypt, they are even more reliant on their remaining 'friends'. This gives their 'friends' even greater latitude to abuse those around them and to abuse the US president - essentially they can do what they like because American desperately needs them to maintain its menacing face toward Iran.
Nice to see how democracy has been supported in Egypt - oh! sorry wrong type of democracy, idiots chose the wrong guy.

willhud9 wrote:

Steve wrote:

willhud9 wrote:Tin foil hat alert.

No it isn't.

This has become conversation American style. I will leave you to it.

Yes it has. Nothing in your mini-episode had any verifiable conclusions.

You basically did this logic exercise.

Because the US spends money over seas to infiltrate foreign governments, dismantle said governments, on war, etc. the United States must then therefore be seeking to create an Empire.

You make a massive leap. Where is the conclusive evidence? You don't have any. You are making sweeping assumptions and filling in the gaps with your own biases. Sorry, but that is the definition of conspiracy theories.

So tin foil hat alert.

Read this.

james1v wrote:Theres a word missing from this debate. No one, it seems from either side, wants to spell it out. Maybe, they cannot understand the word. Maybe they don't want to. Maybe it destroys their one sided thinking, and they know what it means. So, they deliberately ignore it. Maybe.

The word?

"Intent".
It is actually rocket science, and how to limit your oppositions understanding/ means of delivery. And, stopping their "intent".


Intent, its everything. Its what gets you convicted of murder, and other crimes.

Can we, as a rational website, stop the blame culture, and discuss "intent".? Or, does it all boil down to how big is your rocket?

Intent.

I am not sure the players have much concept of this word, except as a tool to manipulate people for their own immediate advantage. They want the candy now, not two candies later. Lives are at stake! Time is of the essence!!