What, precisely is liberal democracy and is it a good thing?

Is it diametrically opposed to social democracy, or do they overlap? Is one a subset of the other?

Which of the following countries are liberal democracies? And explain why or why not...

United States
United Kingdom
France
Germany
Sweden
Japan
Australia
New Zealand
Canada
Mexico
Spain
Italy
Russia

Is liberal democracy incompatible with Islam? Christianity? Communism?

Color me curious too

NineOneFour wrote:What, precisely is liberal democracy and is it a good thing?

Is it diametrically opposed to social democracy, or do they overlap? Is one a subset of the other?

I'd too would like to know whether liberal democracy overlaps with social democracy. Coz I have a tendency to describe myself as following either, depending on which way the wind blows. My fear in calling myself a Liberal Democrat is that that might somehow align me to the politics favoured by Strontium Dog. If that's the case, then I don't want anything to do with Liberal Democracy.

Its a democracy where dissenting voices from the majority are not only allowed but encouraged but always with some legal and social restrictions.

All the countries on the list are liberal democracies with the possible exception of Russia due to corruption. The US is in danger of ceasing to be one if the religious nuts take over but is at the moment

What definition of liberalism are we talking about here? To most Americans Liberalism is synonymous to left wing politics while in Europe it's often considered right wing.
Here in the Netherlands we have two liberal parties, VVD and D66, the former being right wing conservatives and the latter centered progressives. Lately D66 has been claiming to be the 'true' liberal party, strongly opposing the VVD's flirting with Wilders.

Yeah, i'm not even sure if it means socially liberal or economically liberal, or both? And if it means economically liberal, it depends on what exactly that means. If it means 'invisible hand of the market' bullshit, then I don't want anything to do with it. If it means 'free' more in the sense of being 'fare' then I'm in favour of that. What was Keynes considered?

Liberalism isnt really 'left wing politics' in this case, it means open to new ideas even if you reject them

Politically liberal outside the US is everything from left to right wing

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_democracy

Liberal democracy, also known as constitutional democracy, is a common form of representative democracy. According to the principles of liberal democracy, elections should be free and fair, and the political process should be competitive. Political pluralism is usually defined as the presence of multiple and distinct political parties.

That's all liberal democracy is: an open society with free, fair elections.

Strontium Dog wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_democracy

Liberal democracy, also known as constitutional democracy, is a common form of representative democracy. According to the principles of liberal democracy, elections should be free and fair, and the political process should be competitive. Political pluralism is usually defined as the presence of multiple and distinct political parties.

That's all liberal democracy is: an open society with free, fair elections.

I was hoping for more of a commentary on what the various partisan political parties known as Liberal Democrats share in common as core values.

Well that's tough shit then, isn't it.

Strontium Dog wrote:Well that's tough shit then, isn't it.

Liberal Democracy is just a fancy word for plutocracy. Some states are better than others in that they are more egalitarian. However, a liberal democracy is simply that... a liberal form of democracy. The people in those countries have very little say in domesic and foreign politics of the state. That is exactly why elections usually have low voter turnouts, because people really believe that they have very little influence on how the state should be run.

Switzerland is the only country with a form of direct democracy that I can think of.

I'll just asnwer your last question.

"Is liberal democracy incompatible with Islam? Christianity? Communism?"

No.
No.
Yes, if by communism you mean the term in the Marxist sense, which has never been implemented yet, then yes communism is incompatible with a liberal democracy, since in communism you'd have direct democracy with everyone having a say (communism is the utopian stage after socialism's dictatorship of the proletariat..whatever that means).

JoeB wrote:What definition of liberalism are we talking about here? To most Americans Liberalism is synonymous to left wing politics while in Europe it's often considered right wing.
Here in the Netherlands we have two liberal parties, VVD and D66, the former being right wing conservatives and the latter centered progressives. Lately D66 has been claiming to be the 'true' liberal party, strongly opposing the VVD's flirting with Wilders.

And, yet the actual policies of the American Liberals and European Liberals do not seem particularly different in most ways. Europe lacks any equivalent of American Conservatives (even the PVV, FN, etc are hardly equivalent except on racial bullshit) and America lacks any equivalent of the European Left, unless you include a few members of this forum, Bernie Sanders, and Dennis Kucinich.

Strontium Dog wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_democracy

Liberal democracy, also known as constitutional democracy, is a common form of representative democracy. According to the principles of liberal democracy, elections should be free and fair, and the political process should be competitive. Political pluralism is usually defined as the presence of multiple and distinct political parties.

That's all liberal democracy is: an open society with free, fair elections.

Well, that's a ridiculous summarization. What is an "open society"? Does a liberal democracy overlap a social democracy?

Strontium Dog wrote:Well that's tough shit then, isn't it.

So, in summary, you got nothing.

Got it.

914: "America lacks any equivalent of the European Left, unless you include a few members of this forum, Bernie Sanders, and Dennis Kucinich."

Neither of those politicians would fit into the European 'left,' it doesn't seem so anyways, they're simply mainstream social democrats. The 'Left' in Europe is composed of reformist Marxists, anarchists, and democratic socialists. Neither Kucinich or Sanders is as "left" as someone like.. UK's Tony Benn.

Since someone like Kucinich is considered a radical in America, someone from the European Left would probably be seen as being as red as Satan.

andyx1205 wrote:Liberal Democracy is just a fancy word for plutocracy.

Some states are better than others in that they are more egalitarian. However, a liberal democracy is simply that... a liberal form of democracy. The people in those countries have very little say in domesic and foreign politics of the state. That is exactly why elections usually have low voter turnouts, because people really believe that they have very little influence on how the state should be run.

Can you list these countries with low voter turnouts?

Switzerland is the only country with a form of direct democracy that I can think of.

I'll just asnwer your last question.

"Is liberal democracy incompatible with Islam? Christianity? Communism?"

No.
No.
Yes, if by communism you mean the term in the Marxist sense, which has never been implemented yet, then yes communism is incompatible with a liberal democracy, since in communism you'd have direct democracy with everyone having a say (communism is the utopian stage after socialism's dictatorship of the proletariat..whatever that means).

Fair enough.

andyx1205 wrote:914: "America lacks any equivalent of the European Left, unless you include a few members of this forum, Bernie Sanders, and Dennis Kucinich."

Neither of those politicians would fit into the European 'left,' it doesn't seem so anyways, they're simply mainstream social democrats. The 'Left' in Europe is composed of reformist Marxists, anarchists, and democratic socialists. Neither Kucinich or Sanders is as "left" as someone like.. UK's Tony Benn.

Okay, well, true, I suppose. Does that mean that Parti Socialiste and PvdA aren't "Left"? They're going to be very disappointed...

Some states are better than others in that they are more egalitarian. However, a liberal democracy is simply that... a liberal form of democracy. The people in those countries have very little say in domesic and foreign politics of the state. That is exactly why elections usually have low voter turnouts, because people really believe that they have very little influence on how the state should be run.

Can you list these countries with low voter turnouts?

The UK averages about 60pc, 65pc in the last election. It's been slowly declining since 1945.

NineOneFour wrote:

Strontium Dog wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_democracy

Liberal democracy, also known as constitutional democracy, is a common form of representative democracy. According to the principles of liberal democracy, elections should be free and fair, and the political process should be competitive. Political pluralism is usually defined as the presence of multiple and distinct political parties.

That's all liberal democracy is: an open society with free, fair elections.

Well, that's a ridiculous summarization. What is an "open society"? Does a liberal democracy overlap a social democracy?

Ya'll know or should know by now that I'm about as removed from the world of political philosophizing in the sense of party politics or ideologies as one can get, it's all a bunch of obsolete horseshit in my book. But I do find it rather amazing that you all can go on and on and on and on on this topic and never reach any agreement about what the fuck is what, and even when a guy tries to use a dictionary definition, he gets hammered.

Anything in which zero to little common ground can be found regarding what it may or may not be almost has to be a load of bollocks to begin with. The more ya'll argue about it the more it falls apart, until it has become so much meaningless tripe that has no relevance to the issues the world faces today. For my money, ya'll are living in the last century, and before, and since we are now at least a decade into the 21st century it might be time to start doing a little catching up to the modern age.

I reckon anyway.