Malaysia Airlines flight missing !

Carrier says search-and-rescue team activated after contact lost with jet carrying 239 people !

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Re: Malaysia Airlines flight missing !

#241  Postby Alan B » Apr 07, 2014 9:16 am

johnbrandt wrote:The conspiracy nuts are out in force after todays promising news that a US navy towed undersea sensor connected to one of our navy ships has repeatedly found strong signals from what they can only suspect are the black boxes.
They have been saying the batteries last "around 30 days", and "coincidentally" this is the 30th day. That got the worms crawling out of the woodwork that it was "suspicious".

Of course, an aviation expert said that planes are generally over-engineered, so they usually expect the batteries could possibly last over a week longer than the "about 30 days" they are specced to last.

I heard that on the news this morning. The '30 days' thing is, I suspect, a minimum design requirement. No self-respecting design engineer would stick precisely to that. In safety, security and accident monitoring equipment that minimum design requirement will always be exceeded for, er, safety, security and accident monitoring reasons.
Something these conspiracy kooks don't understand. It's a concept they haven't an inkling of grasping.
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Re: Malaysia Airlines flight missing !

#242  Postby johnbrandt » Apr 07, 2014 9:28 am

Alan B wrote:
I heard that on the news this morning. The '30 days' thing is, I suspect, a minimum design requirement. No self-respecting design engineer would stick precisely to that. In safety, security and accident monitoring equipment that minimum design requirement will always be exceeded for, er, safety, security and accident monitoring reasons.
Something these conspiracy kooks don't understand. It's a concept they haven't an inkling of grasping.


Yes, usually with engineering, they'll build in "a little extra" in systems that don't add weight or complexity. Extra battery life would be one of those areas. For example, our diesel locomotives have massive battery packs for starting them up. We're warned that if it's below 90 volts, the loco will not start...it's supposed to be up at 105 volts usually. But by experience we've discovered they'll start...just...as low as 70 volts, and will happily do so at 80. The "won't start below 90 volts" in the specs is obviously just a safety margin so you won't let the batteries get too low when a loco is sitting around not running for a few days.

Let's hope that British nuclear sub that's prowling around out there can find something if the robot subs from the Australian navy ship can't.
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Re: Malaysia Airlines flight missing !

#243  Postby Agi Hammerthief » Apr 07, 2014 9:46 am

the signal is not going to stop all if a sudden, it'll just gradually loose strength.
* my (modified) emphasis ( or 'interpretation' )
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Re: Malaysia Airlines flight missing !

#244  Postby HomerJay » Apr 07, 2014 10:04 am

Alan B wrote:
johnbrandt wrote:The conspiracy nuts are out in force after todays promising news that a US navy towed undersea sensor connected to one of our navy ships has repeatedly found strong signals from what they can only suspect are the black boxes.
They have been saying the batteries last "around 30 days", and "coincidentally" this is the 30th day. That got the worms crawling out of the woodwork that it was "suspicious".

Of course, an aviation expert said that planes are generally over-engineered, so they usually expect the batteries could possibly last over a week longer than the "about 30 days" they are specced to last.

I heard that on the news this morning. The '30 days' thing is, I suspect, a minimum design requirement. No self-respecting design engineer would stick precisely to that. In safety, security and accident monitoring equipment that minimum design requirement will always be exceeded for, er, safety, security and accident monitoring reasons.
Something these conspiracy kooks don't understand. It's a concept they haven't an inkling of grasping.

Also, since most of the power is being used by the signal transmitter, not the signal generator, there is a tail off in the power of the transmission, rather than an abrupt cessation.

Things like the age and the conditioning of the battery introduce other variables that affect how long the signal will be traceable for.

The 30 days thing is Apophenia.
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Re: Malaysia Airlines flight missing !

#245  Postby Alan B » Apr 07, 2014 10:13 am

HomerJay wrote:Also, since most of the power is being used by the signal transmitter, not the signal generator, there is a tail off in the power of the transmission, rather than an abrupt cessation.

Things like the age and the conditioning of the battery introduce other variables that affect how long the signal will be traceable for.

True - up to a point. It depends what type of battery is used. Some have a gradual voltage drop-off (e.g. lead-acid and similar), others have a rather sharp drop (e.g. Nickle-Cadmium and similar) - one presumes that re-chargeable cells are used.

The image is just an example of the sort of variation there is in discharge curves between battery types:
Image
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Re: Malaysia Airlines flight missing !

#246  Postby DougC » Jun 14, 2014 8:20 pm

B.B.C. - Malaysian plane MH370: families get $50,000 payments
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Re: Malaysia Airlines flight missing !

#247  Postby DougC » Sep 26, 2014 6:15 pm

B.B.C. - New search images reveal seabed details
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Re: Malaysia Airlines flight missing !

#248  Postby DougC » Jan 29, 2015 7:01 pm

B.B.C. - Malaysia declares flight disappearance an accident
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Re: Another Malaysian Airline missing

#249  Postby DougC » Mar 01, 2015 3:59 pm

B.B.C. - MH370 search nations trial long-haul plane tracking
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Re: Malaysia Airlines flight missing !

#250  Postby DougC » Mar 03, 2016 2:15 am

B.B.C. - 'High possibility' debris from Boeing 777

Image
The Australian Transport Safety Bureau released pictures of the debris found in Mozambique
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Re: Another Malaysian Airline missing

#251  Postby DougC » Jun 10, 2016 12:48 am

B.B.C. - New debris found on Madagascar beach

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Re: Another Malaysian Airline missing

#252  Postby DougC » Jul 27, 2016 11:00 pm

B.B.C. - Missing jet 'could be further north'
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Re: Malaysia Airlines flight missing !

#253  Postby Agi Hammerthief » Jul 28, 2016 4:10 pm

Pilot practised the last route on flight simulator accorting to German paper.
citing New York Magazine article of last week, but NYmag.com doesn't show an article.

http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/mh370-pi ... 05107.html
* my (modified) emphasis ( or 'interpretation' )
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Re: Malaysia Airlines flight missing !

#254  Postby NineBerry » Jul 28, 2016 4:24 pm

Australian officials have confirmed that data recovered from a home flight simulator owned by the captain of Malaysia Airlines flight 370 showed that someone had used the device to plot a course to the southern Indian Ocean, where the missing jet is believed to have crashed.


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/ ... dian-ocean
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Re: Malaysia Airlines flight missing !

#255  Postby Agi Hammerthief » Jul 28, 2016 8:35 pm

^ thanks

From that article:
The best available evidence of the whereabouts of MH370, the ATSB statement concluded, remained the last satellite communications with the aircraft, which were used to inform the area of ocean that has been searched for the past two years.

yeah, but the satcom system only works till the turbines run out of fuel, then it's over to battery and Ram Air Turbine**
A good captain can then glide the plane for quite a long time, well outside the current search area.

My guess at this point is: Another one or two extended suicides and the penetration proof door to the cockpit will be removed again.




** not so sure about 777 having a RAT though.
* my (modified) emphasis ( or 'interpretation' )
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Re: Malaysia Airlines flight missing !

#256  Postby DougC » Aug 01, 2016 3:48 pm

B.B.C. - MH370 was flown into water, says Canadian air crash expert
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Re: Malaysia Airlines flight missing !

#257  Postby DougC » Dec 03, 2016 11:28 pm

B.B.C. - MH370 relatives arrive in Madagascar in search of debris
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Re: Malaysia Airlines flight missing !

#258  Postby Macdoc » May 17, 2018 9:19 pm

This seems the most sensible conclusion I've read..

http://www.cbc.ca/news/mh370-flight-mal ... -1.4665938

Did not know the pilot ordered two extra hours of fuel.
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Re: Malaysia Airlines flight missing !

#259  Postby Cito di Pense » Jun 17, 2019 3:20 pm

Fine analysis by a renowned aviation expert; eventually the article focuses on the captain's role, but also condemns the behavior of the Malaysian government and several of its agencies for the fact that we are still doing a lot of guessing.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/ar ... es/590653/
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Re: Malaysia Airlines flight missing !

#260  Postby Spearthrower » Jun 17, 2019 4:10 pm

Well, that was an interesting read. I didn't follow much about the story in the past aside from what was readily on the news, but that was well-written and far more detailed than I'd imagined was known.

If there was a cover-up, then how do they ever expect to fix problems like this, build in measures that would stop such things happening again?
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