More Men Are Raped In The US Than Women?

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More Men Are Raped In The US Than Women?

#1  Postby Sovereign » Jul 12, 2012 7:53 pm

That's the claim in this n+1 piece, which is well worth a read.
In January, prodded in part by outrage over a series of articles in the New York Review of Books, the Justice Department finally released an estimate of the prevalence of sexual abuse in penitentiaries. The reliance on filed complaints appeared to understate the problem. For 2008, for example, the government had previously tallied 935 confirmed instances of sexual abuse. After asking around, and performing some calculations, the Justice Department came up with a new number: 216,000. That's 216,000 victims, not instances. These victims are often assaulted multiple times over the course of the year. The Justice Department now seems to be saying that prison rape accounted for the majority of all rapes committed in the US in 2008, likely making the United States the first country in the history of the world to count more rapes for men than for women.
Those numbers are not quite correct, but they are nonetheless horrifying. First of all, "sexual assault" is not always the same as "rape" and includes a variety of behaviour that wouldn't meet the legal standard for rape. So it's not clear that there are actually more rapes of men than women, or more rapes of prisoners than non-prisoners. Also, the number I found through the Department of Justice (DOJ) was 88,500 victims of sexual victimisation. This New York Review of Books article says that the DOJ revised those findings, getting to 216,000. Continued...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... than-women
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Re: More Men Are Raped In The US Than Women?

#2  Postby CdesignProponentsist » Jul 12, 2012 8:00 pm

I think what is happening in prison can mostly be considered rape and probably HUGELY under reported. So I would tend to believe this claim.
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Re: More Men Are Raped In The US Than Women?

#3  Postby Rachel Bronwyn » Jul 12, 2012 8:28 pm

Not true:

I would like to clear up one Men’s Rights Myth: that the number of men raped inside prison is greater than the number of women raped outside of prison. This is simply false; the numbers aren’t even close: again, while the estimate of the total number of people (male and female) currently being held in prison who have been raped there in the past year is 88,500, estimates of the total number of those raped per year (outside of prison) range from about 200,000 to more than a million (the real number is probably closer to the latter)


Prison rape is an enormous problem. Diminishing the issue of rape outside of prison, however, isn't the solution. This shouldn't be a game of one-upmanship.
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Re: More Men Are Raped In The US Than Women?

#4  Postby Gallstones » Jul 12, 2012 8:40 pm

I wonder what the prevalence of sexual assault is in women's prisons?
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Re: More Men Are Raped In The US Than Women?

#5  Postby Rachel Bronwyn » Jul 12, 2012 9:07 pm

From the same link:

Female inmates in prison (4.7%) or jail (3.1%) were more than twice as likely as male inmates in prison (1.9%) or jail (1.3%) to report experiencing inmate-on-inmate sexual victimization.


Prison and jail rape hurts everyone.
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Re: More Men Are Raped In The US Than Women?

#6  Postby Sovereign » Jul 12, 2012 10:06 pm

Some of the issues raised in the thread were addressed in the link on the OP.
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Re: More Men Are Raped In The US Than Women?

#7  Postby CdesignProponentsist » Jul 12, 2012 10:23 pm

Rachel Bronwyn wrote:Not true:

I would like to clear up one Men’s Rights Myth: that the number of men raped inside prison is greater than the number of women raped outside of prison. This is simply false; the numbers aren’t even close: again, while the estimate of the total number of people (male and female) currently being held in prison who have been raped there in the past year is 88,500, estimates of the total number of those raped per year (outside of prison) range from about 200,000 to more than a million (the real number is probably closer to the latter)


Prison rape is an enormous problem. Diminishing the issue of rape outside of prison, however, isn't the solution. This shouldn't be a game of one-upmanship.


This is a recognition of a HUGE silent problem that remains unaddressed and ignored.

The problem of rape shouldn't be diminished anywhere or for any sex.
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Re: More Men Are Raped In The US Than Women?

#8  Postby CdesignProponentsist » Jul 12, 2012 10:31 pm

Rachel Bronwyn wrote:From the same link:

Female inmates in prison (4.7%) or jail (3.1%) were more than twice as likely as male inmates in prison (1.9%) or jail (1.3%) to report experiencing inmate-on-inmate sexual victimization.


Prison and jail rape hurts everyone.


Numbers are really hard to verify for this type of thing. It is possible that men are far less likely to report a rape. So we really don't know. But I am sure it is a huge problem.
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Re: More Men Are Raped In The US Than Women?

#9  Postby purplerat » Jul 13, 2012 5:24 pm

CdesignProponentsist wrote:
Rachel Bronwyn wrote:From the same link:

Female inmates in prison (4.7%) or jail (3.1%) were more than twice as likely as male inmates in prison (1.9%) or jail (1.3%) to report experiencing inmate-on-inmate sexual victimization.


Prison and jail rape hurts everyone.


Numbers are really hard to verify for this type of thing. It is possible that men are far less likely to report a rape. So we really don't know. But I am sure it is a huge problem.

There are also far more men in prison. So even if only half as many male inmates are raped as women inmates that's still a lot more men than woman. Not that 'which gender gets it worse' really matters much.
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Re: More Men Are Raped In The US Than Women?

#10  Postby Rachel Bronwyn » Jul 13, 2012 6:03 pm

It really doesn't matter. That's why bringing the issue forward as "Men raped in jail is a bigger deal than women raped outside" is so unhelpful. BOTH ARE WRONG.

CdesignProponentsist wrote:
Rachel Bronwyn wrote:From the same link:

Female inmates in prison (4.7%) or jail (3.1%) were more than twice as likely as male inmates in prison (1.9%) or jail (1.3%) to report experiencing inmate-on-inmate sexual victimization.


Prison and jail rape hurts everyone.


Numbers are really hard to verify for this type of thing. It is possible that men are far less likely to report a rape. So we really don't know. But I am sure it is a huge problem.


It's possible the opposite is true as well. These numbers are the best we've got to go by.
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Re: More Men Are Raped In The US Than Women?

#11  Postby purplerat » Jul 13, 2012 6:26 pm

Rachel Bronwyn wrote:It really doesn't matter. That's why bringing the issue forward as "Men raped in jail is a bigger deal than women raped outside" is so unhelpful. BOTH ARE WRONG.

Where did you get that from?

Prison rape is a big deal. A lot bigger than most Americans are willing to consider or accept. It's also a different type of problem from rape outside prison meaning there isn't really one solution that addresses both. There's probably little overlap between what can be done about each problem. The only point in discussing the two together is in gaining perspective.
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Re: More Men Are Raped In The US Than Women?

#12  Postby CdesignProponentsist » Jul 13, 2012 6:43 pm

purplerat wrote:
Rachel Bronwyn wrote:It really doesn't matter. That's why bringing the issue forward as "Men raped in jail is a bigger deal than women raped outside" is so unhelpful. BOTH ARE WRONG.

Where did you get that from?

Prison rape is a big deal. A lot bigger than most Americans are willing to consider or accept. It's also a different type of problem from rape outside prison meaning there isn't really one solution that addresses both. There's probably little overlap between what can be done about each problem. The only point in discussing the two together is in gaining perspective.


Which is the point I was trying to make as well. The study is not to make one more of a bigger deal than the other. It is to call attention to a class of rape that really doesn't get any attention at all by comparing it to another comparable type that gets lots of attention.

The goal isn't to have more attention diverted from female public rape, but to deal with the problem of prison rape which is a fucking HUGE problem but pretty much gets ignored or is dismissed as 'just the way it goes in prison'.

Dealing with the two problems don't even use the same resources, so one-upsmanship doesn't even come into play.
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Re: More Men Are Raped In The US Than Women?

#13  Postby I'm With Stupid » Jul 13, 2012 7:52 pm

I suspect there's a degree of "they get what they deserve" amongst the public, and it won't be in the interests of any politician to take this epidemic seriously.
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Re: More Men Are Raped In The US Than Women?

#14  Postby JoeB » Jul 15, 2012 11:15 am

I'm With Stupid wrote:I suspect there's a degree of "they get what they deserve" amongst the public, and it won't be in the interests of any politician to take this epidemic seriously.

Maybe that's the most disturbing thing of all... :nono:
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Re: More Men Are Raped In The US Than Women?

#15  Postby orpheus » Jul 15, 2012 2:14 pm

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Re: More Men Are Raped In The US Than Women?

#16  Postby johnbrandt » Jul 17, 2012 10:23 am

When the first lot of AIDS awareness campaigning was underway back in the early eighties, there were calls for condoms to be handed out in prisons. The very conservative Premier of my state at the time refused to allow it, saying "That sort of thing doesn't go on in jail"... :lol: :lol: :lol:

The public pretty well knew it damn well did though.
I remember working with a guy on a farm who had spent about six months in jail for some minor offence, and the rest of us used to rib him about "don't drop the soap" and stuff like that. One day one younger guy wouldn't let it go, and just kept picking at him, and the guy silenced us with one comment I still remember to this day, and we didn't joke anymore about what went on in jail.
He said: "Look you young fucker...one day if you end up in jail, and hope you don't, but if you do, some dark night or in the showers or somewhere one or more big angry guys will corner you and they'll give you a choice: go easy and you won't get hurt, or go the hard way and end up in the prison hospital, and I went the easy way, and I bet you fucking would too".

Must be a whole different world in there...but I believe that's the point.
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Re: Re: More Men Are Raped In The US Than Women?

#17  Postby SirDenisNaylandSmith » Jul 18, 2012 8:37 am

I'm With Stupid wrote:I suspect there's a degree of "they get what they deserve" amongst the public, and it won't be in the interests of any politician to take this epidemic seriously.

Tell that to the wrongfully accused and convicted.
Tell that to all the adult men (young adults, 18 to early 20s) in the united states who got into intimate relationships with girls at their schools, or girls claiming to be older than they were, who are now serving time as sex offenders because the relationships went sour and the girl lied and embellished the truth, or somehow the "law" found out.
Tell that to the one man who was recently acquitted who spent years in prison getting raped because his own daughter, a youth, lied and testified that he raped her because she was mad at him for not buying her a pony or some shit like that.

Don't get me wrong, I do partially subscribe to the stance that real child diddlers and rapists DO get what is coming to them. Yet when you're an 18 year old "adult" who is now locked up and on the sex offender registry for life because your 17 year old girlfriend's parents caught you having sex, well, you do not deserve the cornhole blasting you, a good looking, supple young man with 'purty lips' will end up with almost as a guarantee.
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Re: Re: More Men Are Raped In The US Than Women?

#18  Postby SirDenisNaylandSmith » Jul 18, 2012 8:46 am

johnbrandt wrote:When the first lot of AIDS awareness campaigning was underway back in the early eighties, there were calls for condoms to be handed out in prisons. The very conservative Premier of my state at the time refused to allow it, saying "That sort of thing doesn't go on in jail"... :lol: :lol: :lol:

The public pretty well knew it damn well did though.
I remember working with a guy on a farm who had spent about six months in jail for some minor offence, and the rest of us used to rib him about "don't drop the soap" and stuff like that. One day one younger guy wouldn't let it go, and just kept picking at him, and the guy silenced us with one comment I still remember to this day, and we didn't joke anymore about what went on in jail.
He said: "Look you young fucker...one day if you end up in jail, and hope you don't, but if you do, some dark night or in the showers or somewhere one or more big angry guys will corner you and they'll give you a choice: go easy and you won't get hurt, or go the hard way and end up in the prison hospital, and I went the easy way, and I bet you fucking would too".

Must be a whole different world in there...but I believe that's the point.

Wow.

I cannot believe he admitted to such a thing in front of fellow comrades. Damn.

I'm not sure what I would do. I would almost rather be beaten half to death and be unconcious for my anal rapture than to "go the easy way" which in no way would be easy.

God how demeaning and emasculating would that feel?

From the sounds of it it didn't happen again to the guy, but I would instictively assume that if you gave in and went the "easy" way that you would then be a recurring target.. no one has to get their hands dirty or their knuckles bruised because they know you're not going to make it tough.

I guess its safe to say that he formed some sort of alliance with a gang or hell, maybe even those big scary guys. Getting fucked in the ass was their hazing procedure. God only knows..
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Re: Re: More Men Are Raped In The US Than Women?

#19  Postby JoeB » Jul 19, 2012 7:41 am

SirDenisNaylandSmith wrote:
Don't get me wrong, I do partially subscribe to the stance that real child diddlers and rapists DO get what is coming to them.

I don't think they 'deserve' it either though, when a judge sentences someone to jail (in this theoretical case a rapist) that person's human rights shouldn't be made forfeit; no one should be allowed to be raped. The state has a duty to protect those it has taken responsibility over (prisoners, in this case) against violence and crime, these things just may not be condoned, at all.
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Re: More Men Are Raped In The US Than Women?

#20  Postby johnbrandt » Jul 19, 2012 7:42 am

He was a pretty big guy, and must have been having a pretty bad day as he was on a hair trigger the day the other guy pushed him too far with joking comments and he snapped out what happened to him. He seemed a little ashamed after he told us, but I think the rest of us could imagine if we were surrounded by three or four big angry guys pumped up on testosterone and who had nothing to lose (lifers, etc), then the consequences of not "giving in" could be pretty bad, even fatal.
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