https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/ ... ut-twitter

Do we have a thread discussing this?

Has anyone read these books?
1. Viral: The Search for the Origin of COVID-19 - Matt RIdley & Alina Chan
2. On the Origin of the Deadliest Pandemic in 100 Years: An Investigation - Elaine Dewar

What’s to discuss?

As for those books, Chan’s work was rejected by science journals. So, she went the commercial route, selling her work for profit. Ridley simply wanted a piece of that profit, her work fits well into his libertarian mindset. Dewar writes to sell books.

When we seek facts, that is not the place to find them.

I’m going with the science.

Although there is insufficient evidence to define upstream events, and exact circumstances remain obscure, our analyses indicate that the emergence of SARS-CoV-2 occurred through the live wildlife trade in China and show that the Huanan market was the epicenter of the COVID-19 pandemic.

Michael Worobey et al. ,The Huanan Seafood Wholesale Market in Wuhan was the early epicenter of the COVID-19 pandemic.Science377,951-959(2022).DOI:10.1126/science.abp8715

I'm not saying it was aliens, but...

The science (for now) indicates its likely origin as zoonotic and spreading from around the area of a live animal market as mentioned previously. This a very plausible interaction for zoonotic transfer as there many species present many of them non-domesticated and with a high population of humans in close proximity. Other more complex proposals such as
that it was accidentally released perhaps by a lab animal used for biological weapons testing ending up for sale in that market or purposely (by some method) using the presence of multiple species who could plausibly be the source as a cover story for this release blunt Occam's razor somewhat.

Indeed, we've known for some time that dangerous filoviruses reside in a reservoir consisting of bats, and that intermittently, those filoviruses jump species to humans, a process made all the more likely by human pressures on the habitat of said bats. We know that influenza resides in a reservoir consisting of migratory birds, and jumps ship to humans readily every year. Entire taxonomic Families of viruses are insect borne, including such virulent serotypes as Zika and Dengue Haemorrhagic Fever.

No one aware of the aforementioned data is in the least surprised to learn that a live animal market could be the epicentre for a new zoonotic. Unfortunately, the emergence thereof has become the basis for conspiracy fantasising, of a sort that has become a sort of identity totem for uneducated hicks and right wing loons, and the duplicitous profiteer from multiplying the disinformation.

Calilasseia wrote:Indeed, we've known for some time that dangerous filoviruses reside in a reservoir consisting of bats, and that intermittently, those filoviruses jump species to humans, a process made all the more likely by human pressures on the habitat of said bats. We know that influenza resides in a reservoir consisting of migratory birds, and jumps ship to humans readily every year. Entire taxonomic Families of viruses are insect borne, including such virulent serotypes as Zika and Dengue Haemorrhagic Fever.

No one aware of the aforementioned data is in the least surprised to learn that a live animal market could be the epicentre for a new zoonotic. Unfortunately, the emergence thereof has become the basis for conspiracy fantasising, of a sort that has become a sort of identity totem for uneducated hicks and right wing loons, and the duplicitous profiteer from multiplying the disinformation.

It is now beyond any reasonable doubt (except for CCP apologists) that SarsCoV-2 originated as an engineered attempt at gain-of-function. American and Chinese researchers wrote a proposal to DARPA (Project Defuse) in 2018 to basically create a modified bat coronavirus that could infect human cells optimally: https://www.documentcloud.org/documents ... e-proposal

DARPA turned down the request because of the risk it could pose due to insufficient biosafety conditions: https://assets.ctfassets.net/syq3snmxcl ... -darpa.pdf

All of the features of SarsCoV-2 are present in the proposal, including the furin cleavage site:

"We will analyze all SARS-CoV gene sequences for appropriately conserved proteolytic cleavage sites in 52 and for the presence of potential furin cleavage sites."

This whole affair is interesting for two reasons: 1) it shows that we can distinguish between the hallmarks of design and natural processes. 2) The virus needed engineering to become infectious in humans as it was comfortable in its own niche with bats...the gain in function was only possible through design....natural selection was preventing transmission.

kiore wrote:The science (for now) indicates its likely origin as zoonotic and spreading from around the area of a live animal market as mentioned previously. This a very plausible interaction for zoonotic transfer as there many species present many of them non-domesticated and with a high population of humans in close proximity. Other more complex proposals such as
that it was accidentally released perhaps by a lab animal used for biological weapons testing ending up for sale in that market or purposely (by some method) using the presence of multiple species who could plausibly be the source as a cover story for this release blunt Occam's razor somewhat.

CCP propaganda needs refuting (I never thought I would see so many people defending the most repressive and duplicitous regime in human history):

1. Bats are not found in the wet market but were at the WIV.
2. The bats were taken by the researchers from a site in southern China to the lab that is thousands of miles away.
3. The alleged intermediate animal has not been identified.
4. The first cases of Covid-19 were not at the wet market but at the WIV.
5. SarsCoV-2 was, from the outset, optimally suited for infecting human cells and not any other animal.

Citations absolutely required.

If you can assert shit without evidence, we can dismiss that shit without evidence.

Wortfish wrote:

kiore wrote:The science (for now) indicates its likely origin as zoonotic and spreading from around the area of a live animal market as mentioned previously. This a very plausible interaction for zoonotic transfer as there many species present many of them non-domesticated and with a high population of humans in close proximity. Other more complex proposals such as
that it was accidentally released perhaps by a lab animal used for biological weapons testing ending up for sale in that market or purposely (by some method) using the presence of multiple species who could plausibly be the source as a cover story for this release blunt Occam's razor somewhat.

CCP propaganda needs refuting (I never thought I would see so many people defending the most repressive and duplicitous regime in human history):

1. Bats are not found in the wet market but were at the WIV.
2. The bats were taken by the researchers from a site in southern China to the lab that is thousands of miles away.
3. The alleged intermediate animal has not been identified.
4. The first cases of Covid-19 were not at the wet market but at the WIV.
5. SarsCoV-2 was, from the outset, optimally suited for infecting human cells and not any other animal.

Sorry where did I mention bats? You are refuting a claim I did not make.**
I mentioned animal origin being likely with many species present and from 'around the area' (sorry re vague geographical reference but indicating proximity for the purposes of transmission). Zoonotic diseases are zoonotic this doesn't remove the possibility that human intervention in some way opened the pathway, but I standby my comment that it is well understood epidemiologically that proximity to a different species virus makes it more likely for inter species transmission.

** If bets are to be made for species viral reservoir/ source I would bet mammal as source with a side bet for even of: or maybe a bird, would bet seriously against invertebrate source.

Addit: I deny I am a CCP disease origin apologist, but acknowledge that this is exactly what a CCP disease origin apologist would say, so maybe just read my words as they are written.