[MODCOMMENT] Continued from HERE


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verbal pocketplay wrote:

rEvolutionist wrote:

Or the republicans could leave the fringes (by the rest of the world's standards) and join the real world and purge the racists and homophobes and sexists out of their ranks.

my friend, there are, unfortunately, homophobes in the democratic party. way too many. and there are even some racists (how soon everyone forgets some of the things hilary's supporters were saying during the primaries)

Oh I agree. As I have been saying, the US has basically two right-wing parties. One is just a bit less right wing than the other.

verbal pocketplay wrote: and i think it fair to say that the 18% of americans who self identify as tea party supporters are probably just as racist and moronic as the wider american populace in general.

I'll have to disagree with you there. While America does have a high number of "racists" or people with prejudiced views of those not white, the Tea Party has a higher than average %. Tom Schaller of the website FiveThirtyEight broke down recent numbers in a Gallup poll. The poll went beyond just African Americans and included Hispanics and immigrants.

interesting stuff. nate silver is a really smart guy. but he does note...

To be clear, the splits compare those who strongly disapprove or approve of the tea partiers, so the differences reflect those whites with polarized attitudes toward the movement. And the study might be more instructive if it compared compared the tea-partiers views toward those of white conservatives or white Republicans, or differentiated between those who are merely empathetic toward the tea-party movement and those who have actively participated in it. But it's safe to say that those who are sympathetic to the tea party movement do not hold mainstream views on issues related to race and identity politics.

he's probably right. but in order to determine if "the tea party has a higher than average %", as you say, you would have to compare these numbers to polling data on all white americans. my hunch is the tea party numbers would be relatively close. (eta - remember, obama actually lost the white vote)

and of course these number do nothing to prove the absurd statements of 914 that "all" tea party supporters are racists (which he finally backtracked from and decided it was only "99%" of them).

verbal pocketplay wrote: (eta - remember, obama actually lost the white vote)

Well, Obama did better than Kerry on the white vote, so that says something: +4 in white men and +2 in white women. In fact, when was the last time a majority of whites voted with the Dems? I checked back to the 1980 Pres election and couldn't find a year. I think the majority of voting whites just don't like the Dems in general It has gotten closer since Clinton, though. Anyways, sorry for this tangent

and of course these number do nothing to prove the absurd statements of 914 that "all" tea party supporters are racists (which he finally backtracked from and decided it was only "99%" of them).

I wasn't trying to prove his statement. I was merely disagreeing with yours.

Brian wrote:

verbal pocketplay wrote: (eta - remember, obama actually lost the white vote)

Well, Obama did better than Kerry on the white vote, so that says something: +4 in white men and +2 in white women. In fact, when was the last time a majority of whites voted with the Dems? I checked back to the 1980 Pres election and couldn't find a year. I think the majority of voting whites just don't like the Dems in general It has gotten closer since Clinton, though. Anyways, sorry for this tangent

no, it's a great point.

Brian wrote:

verbal pocketplay wrote:and of course these number do nothing to prove the absurd statements of 914 that "all" tea party supporters are racists (which he finally backtracked from and decided it was only "99%" of them).

I wasn't trying to prove his statement. I was merely disagreeing with yours.

no, no. of course not. i wasn't implying that you were. i was just putting it out there for others, like 914, to read.

but you didn't exactly prove that "the Tea Party has a higher than average %", even if im now more inclined to agree with you (and nate silver). consider the immigration numbers. i bet the national average here is very close to the tea party numbers.

and my hunch is that the national white average regarding african americans and latinos is relatively close to the TP numbers, with one exception - the "strongly approve/hardworking/african american" number. that number is way too high. (as a canadian, i can say that number is even higher here regarding our first nations people). but i think it's interesting that the TP numbers regarding african americans is pretty much the same as those for latinos. i think it shows how little they know about either group, and just basing their views on ignorance, not experience (which makes their views easier to change)

but i bet if we took a poll here on the forum about "hardworking and intelligent americans", you get some pretty high "strongly disagree" numbers . i certainly know a lot of dumb, lazy white people. they're all over campus! i live with some! and im happy to admit im not all that hardworking myself

verbal pocketplay wrote:when you said that i didn't "write, type or think as fast as you", i figured you were trying to say that i wasn't as smart as you. was that an insult? probably. did i tell on you? no. and since you're now personalizing this conversation, talking about me in your post, are you also now breaking the rules? who knows. i stand by what i wrote. and i will take the fact that you've failed to address my arguments as your tacit support for them as well (especially when a few thousand words should be no problem for someone who "thinks, types and writes as fast as you do").

but quick rhetorical thought experiment: if i was black, would you call me a "self hating" racist, akin to a jew denying the holocaust? would you? would that be breaking the rules? what if i said i was a tea bagger? since you've said all tea baggers are racist morons, you'd be calling me a racist moron. which means you'd be breaking the rules.

verbal pocketplay wrote:but what if i was. and what if i was black. i wouldn't appreciate being called a brainwashed, self hating, uncle tom, and i wouldnt appreciate being called a racist moron. and for what? disagreeing with rational but debatable economic and social policy? attack arguments, not people. even if those people aren't posting here. (would you feel comfortable posting here as a black conservative when forum members are equating black republicans with jewish holocaust deniers?)

You'll get over it, I'm sure.

verbal pocketplay wrote:interesting stuff. nate silver is a really smart guy. but he does note...

To be clear, the splits compare those who strongly disapprove or approve of the tea partiers, so the differences reflect those whites with polarized attitudes toward the movement. And the study might be more instructive if it compared compared the tea-partiers views toward those of white conservatives or white Republicans, or differentiated between those who are merely empathetic toward the tea-party movement and those who have actively participated in it. But it's safe to say that those who are sympathetic to the tea party movement do not hold mainstream views on issues related to race and identity politics.

he's probably right. but in order to determine if "the tea party has a higher than average %", as you say, you would have to compare these numbers to polling data on all white americans. my hunch is the tea party numbers would be relatively close. (eta - remember, obama actually lost the white vote)

and of course these number do nothing to prove the absurd statements of 914 that "all" tea party supporters are racists (which he finally backtracked from and decided it was only "99%" of them).

So basically you are here to just attack me. Got it.

Glad i can get you that hysterical.

NineOneFour wrote:

verbal pocketplay wrote:when you said that i didn't "write, type or think as fast as you", i figured you were trying to say that i wasn't as smart as you. was that an insult? probably. did i tell on you? no. and since you're now personalizing this conversation, talking about me in your post, are you also now breaking the rules? who knows. i stand by what i wrote. and i will take the fact that you've failed to address my arguments as your tacit support for them as well (especially when a few thousand words should be no problem for someone who "thinks, types and writes as fast as you do").

but quick rhetorical thought experiment: if i was black, would you call me a "self hating" racist, akin to a jew denying the holocaust? would you? would that be breaking the rules? what if i said i was a tea bagger? since you've said all tea baggers are racist morons, you'd be calling me a racist moron. which means you'd be breaking the rules.

hey, looks who's back to avoid my arguments, again. did you notice what the moderator said? apparently there was nothing wrong with telling you that your views as expressed in this tread are moronic and racist. because, you see, i actually made the argument that your unsubstantiated statements were just as moronic and racist as anything on a tea party sign. and the fact that you could not address a single one of my arguments - even though you claim to be able to think and write and type very fast - is taken as your tacit agreement with me.

eta to address that last remark

sorry? "im just here to attack you"? stop personalizing this. or i will tell on you this time. if i was just here to attack you that would make me a troll. and the moderator would have said something. instead, she applauded my posts as "excellent" and that i should "keep it up"

verbal pocketplay wrote:
but you didn't exactly prove that "the Tea Party has a higher than average %", even if im now more inclined to agree with you (and nate silver). consider the immigration numbers. i bet the national average here is very close to the tea party numbers.

I guess we'll both have to wait to see if somebody does a more thorough survey. I probably shouldn't have phrased it "high than average %", but rather "I'm inclined to think they might be blahblah..." or something along those lines.

verbal pocketplay wrote:but i bet if we took a poll here on the forum about "hardworking and intelligent americans", you get some pretty high "strongly disagree" numbers . i certainly know a lot of dumb, lazy white people. they're all over campus! i live with some! and im happy to admit im not all that hardworking myself

Hard work? What's that?

verbal pocketplay wrote:

NineOneFour wrote:

verbal pocketplay wrote:when you said that i didn't "write, type or think as fast as you", i figured you were trying to say that i wasn't as smart as you. was that an insult? probably. did i tell on you? no. and since you're now personalizing this conversation, talking about me in your post, are you also now breaking the rules? who knows. i stand by what i wrote. and i will take the fact that you've failed to address my arguments as your tacit support for them as well (especially when a few thousand words should be no problem for someone who "thinks, types and writes as fast as you do").

but quick rhetorical thought experiment: if i was black, would you call me a "self hating" racist, akin to a jew denying the holocaust? would you? would that be breaking the rules? what if i said i was a tea bagger? since you've said all tea baggers are racist morons, you'd be calling me a racist moron. which means you'd be breaking the rules.

hey, looks who's back to avoid my arguments, again. did you notice what the moderator said? apparently there was nothing wrong with telling you that your views as expressed in this tread are moronic and racist. because, you see, i actually made the argument that your unsubstantiated statements were just as moronic and racist as anything on a tea party sign. and the fact that you could not address a single one of my arguments - even though you claim to be able to think and write and type very fast - is taken as your tacit agreement with me.

No, you can say my argument is moronic and racist. You just can't call me moronic and racist.

I do not agree with you, as you well know.

I've addressed all of your arguments, which basically boil down to:

1. Not all teabaggers are racist scum
2. 914 is a douchebag because he hates teabaggers

That's it. That's your entire argument. Oh, that, and getting caught posting what you thought was a teabagger, which shows that you should pay attention to what you are posting, in addition to what I am posting, which you seem to be incapable of interpreting.

Furthermore, your own argument is laughable, childish, and stupid. Your argument defending racists is also laughable, childish, and wrong-headed.

Got some questions for you:

1. Are some teabaggers racists?

2. Why do those who are not racists not denounce those who are or disassociate themselves with the movement?

3. Why do you in particular seem so worked up about defending teabaggers?

4. Aren't teabaggers morons anyway for accepting that term for themselves?

5. Aren't teabaggers mostly idiots if they cannot understand that government provides services for them?

6. Aren't teabaggers, if they collect a government check, not hypocritical idiots if they want less government?

7. And those that fall under number six, are they not racists if they just want government to deny handouts to minorities?

NineOneFour wrote:

verbal pocketplay wrote:

NineOneFour wrote:

verbal pocketplay wrote:when you said that i didn't "write, type or think as fast as you", i figured you were trying to say that i wasn't as smart as you. was that an insult? probably. did i tell on you? no. and since you're now personalizing this conversation, talking about me in your post, are you also now breaking the rules? who knows. i stand by what i wrote. and i will take the fact that you've failed to address my arguments as your tacit support for them as well (especially when a few thousand words should be no problem for someone who "thinks, types and writes as fast as you do").

but quick rhetorical thought experiment: if i was black, would you call me a "self hating" racist, akin to a jew denying the holocaust? would you? would that be breaking the rules? what if i said i was a tea bagger? since you've said all tea baggers are racist morons, you'd be calling me a racist moron. which means you'd be breaking the rules.

hey, looks who's back to avoid my arguments, again. did you notice what the moderator said? apparently there was nothing wrong with telling you that your views as expressed in this tread are moronic and racist. because, you see, i actually made the argument that your unsubstantiated statements were just as moronic and racist as anything on a tea party sign. and the fact that you could not address a single one of my arguments - even though you claim to be able to think and write and type very fast - is taken as your tacit agreement with me.

No, you can say my argument is moronic and racist. You just can't call me moronic and racist.

I do not agree with you, as you well know.

I've addressed all of your arguments, which basically boil down to:

1. Not all teabaggers are racist scum
2. 914 is a douchebag because he hates teabaggers

That's it. That's your entire argument. Oh, that, and getting caught posting what you thought was a teabagger, which shows that you should pay attention to what you are posting, in addition to what I am posting, which you seem to be incapable of interpreting.

funny, paul and i hugged it out over that pic. you're the only one hung up on it. and your only hung up on it because youre trying to avoid dealing with my actual arguments. but yes (1) is part of my argument, which i've managed to have people like rEvolutionary and others intelligently engage with in debate. (2) is not my argument. if it was, i would have been called out on it. you know, with actual quotes. you know, with actual quotes you can't muster in support of yet another one of your absurd statements.

Plus, unlike you, VPP, I've actually talked with real live people who support the teabaggers.

Racism, while not on the surface, is a constant underlying theme. It is inescapable.

"Nothing better than a dead liberal"
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpzeI8sgIHU[/youtube]

verbal pocketplay wrote:

NineOneFour wrote:

verbal pocketplay wrote:

NineOneFour wrote:

verbal pocketplay wrote:when you said that i didn't "write, type or think as fast as you", i figured you were trying to say that i wasn't as smart as you. was that an insult? probably. did i tell on you? no. and since you're now personalizing this conversation, talking about me in your post, are you also now breaking the rules? who knows. i stand by what i wrote. and i will take the fact that you've failed to address my arguments as your tacit support for them as well (especially when a few thousand words should be no problem for someone who "thinks, types and writes as fast as you do").

but quick rhetorical thought experiment: if i was black, would you call me a "self hating" racist, akin to a jew denying the holocaust? would you? would that be breaking the rules? what if i said i was a tea bagger? since you've said all tea baggers are racist morons, you'd be calling me a racist moron. which means you'd be breaking the rules.

hey, looks who's back to avoid my arguments, again. did you notice what the moderator said? apparently there was nothing wrong with telling you that your views as expressed in this tread are moronic and racist. because, you see, i actually made the argument that your unsubstantiated statements were just as moronic and racist as anything on a tea party sign. and the fact that you could not address a single one of my arguments - even though you claim to be able to think and write and type very fast - is taken as your tacit agreement with me.

No, you can say my argument is moronic and racist. You just can't call me moronic and racist.

I do not agree with you, as you well know.

I've addressed all of your arguments, which basically boil down to:

1. Not all teabaggers are racist scum
2. 914 is a douchebag because he hates teabaggers

That's it. That's your entire argument. Oh, that, and getting caught posting what you thought was a teabagger, which shows that you should pay attention to what you are posting, in addition to what I am posting, which you seem to be incapable of interpreting.

funny, paul and i hugged it out over that pic. you're the only one hung up on it. and your only hung up on it because youre trying to avoid dealing with my actual arguments. but yes (1) is part of my argument, which i've managed to have people like rEvolutionary and others intelligently engage with in debate. (2) is not my argument. if it was, i would have been called out on it. you know, with actual quotes. you know, with actual quotes you can't muster in support of yet another one of your absurd statements.

Okay, since I've already admitted not all teabaggers are racist, and yet I do believe the underlying theme of the teabagger movement IS racism, what precisely more do you want? Just to fuck with me?

Because it's really fucking old.

And, BTW, I edited the last post. please answer the questions.

NineOneFour wrote:
1. Are some teabaggers racists?

2. Why do those who are not racists not denounce those who are or disassociate themselves with the movement?

3. Why do you in particular seem so worked up about defending teabaggers?

4. Aren't teabaggers morons anyway for accepting that term for themselves?

5. Aren't teabaggers mostly idiots if they cannot understand that government provides services for them?

6. Aren't teabaggers, if they collect a government check, not hypocritical idiots if they want less government?

7. And those that fall under number six, are they not racists if they just want government to deny handouts to minorities?

hey, you edited your post after i already responded to it. and dude, every single one of your questions has been specifically addressed in my previous posts. every one of them. read my posts if you want your answers. cause what reason do i have to believe you'd even read my answers when you cant be bothered to even read my previous (lengthy, reasoned, moderator applauded) posts to you

verbal pocketplay wrote:

NineOneFour wrote:
1. Are some teabaggers racists?

2. Why do those who are not racists not denounce those who are or disassociate themselves with the movement?

3. Why do you in particular seem so worked up about defending teabaggers?

4. Aren't teabaggers morons anyway for accepting that term for themselves?

5. Aren't teabaggers mostly idiots if they cannot understand that government provides services for them?

6. Aren't teabaggers, if they collect a government check, not hypocritical idiots if they want less government?

7. And those that fall under number six, are they not racists if they just want government to deny handouts to minorities?

hey, you edited your post after i already responded to it. and dude, every single one of your questions has been specifically addressed in my previous posts. every one of them. read my posts if you want your answers. cause what reason do i have to believe you'd even read my answers when you cant be bothered to even read my previous (lengthy, reasoned, moderator applauded) posts to you

Please answer the above questions. If you have already done so, i apologize.

BrandySpears wrote:"Nothing better than a dead liberal"
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpzeI8sgIHU[/youtube]

I feel like yelling "Our forefathers fought for free speech and this is all we got?!?"

NineOneFour wrote:Plus, unlike you, VPP, I've actually talked with real live people who support the teabaggers.

seriously, dont personalize this. you dont know who i have and have not talked to. have you talked to the people from gary, indiana who i lived with for five months back in 2008? dont personalize this and assume you know who i have and have not talked to. i never once made assumptions about your familiarity with african american communities after you accused all black tea baggers of being brainwashed self hating morons. so dont act like you know who i speak with.

verbal pocketplay wrote:

NineOneFour wrote:Plus, unlike you, VPP, I've actually talked with real live people who support the teabaggers.

seriously, dont personalize this. you dont know who i have and have not talked to. have you talked to the people from gary, indiana who i lived with for five months back in 2008? dont personalize this and assume you know who i have and have not talked to. i never once said "do you even have any black friends"? because that would be personalizing things. so dont act like you know who i speak with.

Oh, so you do know some teabaggers, then.