Rumraket wrote:

Thomas Eshuis wrote:Not content with the inital signal, Trump sets yet more fire to the kindling:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/dec/06/trump-recognise-jerusalem-israel-capital-move-us-embassy-white-house

Donald Trump to recognise Jerusalem as Israel's capital and move US embassy

Officials confirm that US president will break with decades of diplomacy in a move many warn will trigger unrest in the region
Donald Trump will declare formal recognition of Jerusalem as the capital of Israel on Wednesday, the White House has said, breaking with years of precedent and potentially leading to unpredictable consequences for the Middle East.

This is pretty sure to ignite a lot of tensions in the middle east. I can't help but feel this is the very worst attempt at instigating violence between Israel and it's neighbors, and in every concievable way plays into the hands of all the bad parties in the world. Neo-nazis, russia, ISIS and other fundamentalits islamists, weapons manufacturers, fundamentalist christians, neo-cons etc. etc.

Absolutely no good will come of this. Trump truly is the absolute clusterfuck president above them all. I'm genuinely depressed by his presidency and I live neither in the US or middle east.

WayOfTheDodo wrote:

Rumraket wrote:

Thomas Eshuis wrote:Not content with the inital signal, Trump sets yet more fire to the kindling:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/dec/06/trump-recognise-jerusalem-israel-capital-move-us-embassy-white-house

Donald Trump to recognise Jerusalem as Israel's capital and move US embassy

Officials confirm that US president will break with decades of diplomacy in a move many warn will trigger unrest in the region
Donald Trump will declare formal recognition of Jerusalem as the capital of Israel on Wednesday, the White House has said, breaking with years of precedent and potentially leading to unpredictable consequences for the Middle East.

This is pretty sure to ignite a lot of tensions in the middle east. I can't help but feel this is the very worst attempt at instigating violence between Israel and it's neighbors, and in every concievable way plays into the hands of all the bad parties in the world. Neo-nazis, russia, ISIS and other fundamentalits islamists, weapons manufacturers, fundamentalist christians, neo-cons etc. etc.

Absolutely no good will come of this. Trump truly is the absolute clusterfuck president above them all. I'm genuinely depressed by his presidency and I live neither in the US or middle east.

While I agree that no good will come of this and it's a bad move, it is also sort of blaming the victim.

The Muslim world is opposed to it because they are opposed to anything and everything that has to do with Israel,because of Jews.

So the whole thing is a bad idea because of the rampant racism of Israel's neighbors.

WayOfTheDodo wrote:

Rumraket wrote:

Thomas Eshuis wrote:Not content with the inital signal, Trump sets yet more fire to the kindling:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/dec/06/trump-recognise-jerusalem-israel-capital-move-us-embassy-white-house

Donald Trump to recognise Jerusalem as Israel's capital and move US embassy

Officials confirm that US president will break with decades of diplomacy in a move many warn will trigger unrest in the region
Donald Trump will declare formal recognition of Jerusalem as the capital of Israel on Wednesday, the White House has said, breaking with years of precedent and potentially leading to unpredictable consequences for the Middle East.

This is pretty sure to ignite a lot of tensions in the middle east. I can't help but feel this is the very worst attempt at instigating violence between Israel and it's neighbors, and in every concievable way plays into the hands of all the bad parties in the world. Neo-nazis, russia, ISIS and other fundamentalits islamists, weapons manufacturers, fundamentalist christians, neo-cons etc. etc.

Absolutely no good will come of this. Trump truly is the absolute clusterfuck president above them all. I'm genuinely depressed by his presidency and I live neither in the US or middle east.

While I agree that no good will come of this and it's a bad move, it is also sort of blaming the victim. The Muslim world is opposed to it because they are opposed to anything and everything that has to do with Israel, because of Jews. So the whole thing is a bad idea because of the rampant racism of Israel's neighbors.

WayOfTheDodo wrote:What are Saudi Arabia's last actions?

Israel is not a bully. Israel was attacked, and defended itself. And the attackers kept attacking.

WayOfTheDodo wrote:What country was stolen? Palestine was never a country. It was an area owned by someone else. Then Jews (and some Arabs) started migrating there, and the owner at the time decided to give the area to the local population. The Jews accepted. The Arabs did not. Why? Because they were racist fucks who wanted everything for themselves and nothing for the Jews.

romansh wrote:Whilst we are off topic I reminded of a dry comment from a colleague many years ago now.

The Israelis and Palestinians deserve one another.

Having said that sometimes I get the sense that Israel's response, at least on occasions, is over the top. They don't get the eye for the eye metaphor either literally or the "measured" interpretation.

CdesignProponentsist wrote:

romansh wrote:Whilst we are off topic I reminded of a dry comment from a colleague many years ago now.

The Israelis and Palestinians deserve one another.

Having said that sometimes I get the sense that Israel's response, at least on occasions, is over the top. They don't get the eye for the eye metaphor either literally or the "measured" interpretation.

That dry comment is horribly short sighted.

Israelis and Palestinians are a diverse multitude of people many of which are caught in the middle and suffering horribly through no fault of their own. They don't deserve this.

WayOfTheDodo wrote:Parroting the what?

WayOfTheDodo wrote:Yes, the conflict is basically one-sided with Israel always defending itself

and the other ones always attacking.

If Israel hadn't had the military might that it does, it would have been wiped out a long time ago.

On the other hand, Israel shows amazing restraint considering all the attacks on its citizens.

WayOfTheDodo wrote:Each terrorist attack in Europe gets tons of attention, but in Israel this kind of thing is almost a daily thing.

But they are mostly Jews over there, so I guess no one cares.

romansh wrote:Having said that sometimes I get the sense that Israel's response, at least on occasions, is over the top. They don't get the eye for the eye metaphor either literally or the "measured" interpretation.

Thomas Eshuis wrote:

WayOfTheDodo wrote:Parroting the what?

PRATT, PointRefutedAThousandTimes.

WayOfTheDodo wrote:
While Israel has certainly made mistakes in war, they are extremely good at avoiding civilian casualties. They show amazing restraint, IMO.

Animavore wrote:And so it begins...

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 00311.html

Animavore wrote:

WayOfTheDodo wrote:
While Israel has certainly made mistakes in war, they are extremely good at avoiding civilian casualties. They show amazing restraint, IMO.

He says right after the news report I just posted.

WayOfTheDodo wrote:

Animavore wrote:And so it begins...

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 00311.html

Weird how it didn't "begin" when the Palestinians launched rockets at Israel. It is only when Israel responds in order to protect itself that it "begins". Yeah, weird.

It's also amazing how no one points out the fact that Hamas keeps its military installations as close to their own civilians as possible. This is a clear violation of the Geneva convention, while the same convention does allow attacks on military targets even if civilians are used in an attempt to shield them.

Animavore wrote:

WayOfTheDodo wrote:

Animavore wrote:And so it begins...

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 00311.html

Weird how it didn't "begin" when the Palestinians launched rockets at Israel. It is only when Israel responds in order to protect itself that it "begins". Yeah, weird.

It's also amazing how no one points out the fact that Hamas keeps its military installations as close to their own civilians as possible. This is a clear violation of the Geneva convention, while the same convention does allow attacks on military targets even if civilians are used in an attempt to shield them.

Weird how it didn't begin when Israel started the occupation.

Animavore wrote:

WayOfTheDodo wrote:
While Israel has certainly made mistakes in war, they are extremely good at avoiding civilian casualties. They show amazing restraint, IMO.

He says right after the news report I just posted.

WayOfTheDodo wrote:

Animavore wrote:And so it begins...

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 00311.html

Weird how it didn't "begin" when the Palestinians launched rockets at Israel. It is only when Israel responds in order to protect itself that it "begins". Yeah, weird.

It's also amazing how no one points out the fact that Hamas keeps its military installations as close to their own civilians as possible. This is a clear violation of the Geneva convention, while the same convention does allow attacks on military targets even if civilians are used in an attempt to shield them.

Animavore wrote:

WayOfTheDodo wrote:
While Israel has certainly made mistakes in war, they are extremely good at avoiding civilian casualties. They show amazing restraint, IMO.

He says right after the news report I just posted.

What about it? The news is about Israel responding to yet another attack.

Israel is the only nation on the planet that is expected to sit down and do nothing when attacked with rockets. Any other government would be removed from power immediately if they did what you expect from Israel.

WayOfTheDodo wrote:

Thomas Eshuis wrote:

WayOfTheDodo wrote:Parroting the what?

PRATT, PointRefutedAThousandTimes.

Except it hasn't been refuted.