The Rise of English Fascism

juju7 · **#101** by **juju7** » Oct 25, 2014 11:02 am

Briton wrote:
juju7 wrote:Meanwhile the police state is alive and well:

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014 ... WEML6619I2

... the undercover officers had been targeted at small-time criminals selling drugs...

A waste of resources. I wish the British public would wake up to that rather than patting them on the back for it.

The bit you left out

The watchdog has refused to say how many undercover officers are being used to infiltrate political groups.

Does this not bother you?

DougC · **#102** by **DougC** » Nov 01, 2014 10:17 am

B.B.C. - Britain First Rochester election mail leaflet dubbed illegal

juju7 · **#103** by **juju7** » Nov 07, 2014 6:32 am

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/n ... WEML6619I2

Intelligence agencies spying on lawyers in sensitive security cases

Internal MI5, MI6 and GCHQ documents reveal routine interception of legally privileged communications

Briton · **#104** by **Briton** » Nov 07, 2014 10:00 am

juju7 wrote:
Briton wrote:
juju7 wrote:Meanwhile the police state is alive and well:

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014 ... WEML6619I2

... the undercover officers had been targeted at small-time criminals selling drugs...

A waste of resources. I wish the British public would wake up to that rather than patting them on the back for it.

The bit you left out
The watchdog has refused to say how many undercover officers are being used to infiltrate political groups.

Does this not bother you?

Yes. It's 'bothering' that the watchdog refuses to give out information and I don't trust the police not to abuse our freedoms.

Cthulhu's Trilby · **#105** by **Cthulhu's Trilby** » Nov 07, 2014 10:11 am

juju7 wrote:
The bit you left out
The watchdog has refused to say how many undercover officers are being used to infiltrate political groups.

Does this not bother you?

Should that bother us? Depends what they're doing. If they're just keeping an eye on what groups are doing, fine by me. That's how intelligence works: idenifying potential threats before they occur.

juju7 · **#106** by **juju7** » Nov 07, 2014 11:04 am

Cthulhu's Trilby wrote:
juju7 wrote:
The bit you left out
The watchdog has refused to say how many undercover officers are being used to infiltrate political groups.

Does this not bother you?

Should that bother us? Depends what they're doing. If they're just keeping an eye on what groups are doing, fine by me. That's how intelligence works: idenifying potential threats before they occur.

Then you would like:

"If you've got nothing to hide, you've got nothing to fear"

Heinrich Himmler

mrjonno · **#107** by **mrjonno** » Nov 07, 2014 11:08 am

Watching people closely who you suspect may be a threat (even if it turns out they are not) is not a serious concern to freedom and in fact is vital in a modern society.

Locking people up who aren't a threat however is a very different matter

DarthHelmet86 · **#108** by **DarthHelmet86** » Nov 07, 2014 11:15 am

What is there to fear of a bloke rocking up at meetings and listening in to shit. What is scary about that? If you break into my private house and listen to me in my private conversations we have something to be scared of, even if I have nothing to fear. But if you are going around to meetings of public groups, pretending to be an interested member to listen to what is being said there is nothing to be scared of.

And lets not ignore that the "We refuse to say" might mean that they have fucking none doing it.

Cthulhu's Trilby · **#109** by **Cthulhu's Trilby** » Nov 07, 2014 11:20 am

juju7 wrote:Then you would like:
"If you've got nothing to hide, you've got nothing to fear"

Heinrich Himmler

Yeah...what?

I mean, there's a pretty fucking massive gulf between a normal level of national security and the 3rd Reich. I suppose during the Troubles in Northern Ireland we could've just sat back and let the bombs go off rather than actively looking for the IRA, but to be honest I feel there's probably a balance there somewhere...

mrjonno · **#110** by **mrjonno** » Nov 07, 2014 11:23 am

DarthHelmet86 wrote:What is there to fear of a bloke rocking up at meetings and listening in to shit. What is scary about that? If you break into my private house and listen to me in my private conversations we have something to be scared of, even if I have nothing to fear. But if you are going around to meetings of public groups, pretending to be an interested member to listen to what is being said there is nothing to be scared of.

And lets not ignore that the "We refuse to say" might mean that they have fucking none doing it.

If someone is overheard down the pub saying to his mate I hate the PM/President someone should shoot him, that to me is not a reason to arrest him for conspiracy to murder BUT it is a justification for wire tapping his phone.

I personally think the bar for sending someone to jail should be (and is) very high, but the bar for actually investigating someone doesn't need to be anywhere near as high

juju7 · **#111** by **juju7** » Nov 19, 2014 11:21 am

Cthulhu's Trilby wrote:
juju7 wrote:Then you would like:
"If you've got nothing to hide, you've got nothing to fear"

Heinrich Himmler

Yeah...what?

I mean, there's a pretty fucking massive gulf between a normal level of national security and the 3rd Reich.

It depends on what level you consider to be normal. Where do you draw the line?

Sendraks · **#112** by **Sendraks** » Nov 19, 2014 11:29 am

juju7 wrote:
Cthulhu's Trilby wrote:
juju7 wrote:Then you would like:
"If you've got nothing to hide, you've got nothing to fear"

Heinrich Himmler

Yeah...what?

I mean, there's a pretty fucking massive gulf between a normal level of national security and the 3rd Reich.

It depends on what level you consider to be normal. Where do you draw the line?

Snooping on the conversations of every day folk where there is no evidence to justify such behaviour and no evidence within the conversations that such ongoing monitoring is required.

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