BWE wrote:

Coining of the phrase; racism Edit

William Ryan coined the phrase "blaming the victim" in his 1971 book Blaming the Victim.[4][5][6][7][8] In the book, Ryan described victim blaming as an ideology used to justify racism and social injustice against black people in the United States.[7] Ryan wrote the book to refute Daniel Patrick Moynihan's 1965 work The Negro Family: The Case for National Action (usually simply referred to as the Moynihan Report).[9]

Moynihan had concluded that three centuries of brutilization at the hands of whites, and in particular the uniquely cruel structure of American slavery as opposed to its Latin American counterparts, had created a long series of chaotic disruptions within the black family structure which, at the time of the report, manifested itself in high rates of unwed births, absent fathers, and single mother households in black families. Moynihan then correlated these familial outcomes, which he considered undesirable, to the relatively poorer rates of employment, educational achievement, and financial success found among the black population. Moynihan advocated the implementation of government programs designed to strengthen the black nuclear family.[citation needed]

Ryan objected that Moynihan then located the proximate cause of the plight of black Americans in the prevalence of a family structure in which the father was often sporadically, if at all, present, and the mother was often dependent on government aid to feed, clothe, and provide medical care for her children. Ryan's critique cast the Moynihan theories as attempts to divert responsibility for poverty from social structural factors to the behavioral and cultural patterns of the poor.[10][11]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victim_blaming

Thomas Eshuis wrote:You're also missing the point that the act of obeying or not obeying orders, does not, in itself, constitute a threat.

WayOfTheDodo wrote:

Thomas Eshuis wrote:You're also missing the point that the act of obeying or not obeying orders, does not, in itself, constitute a threat.

Except it does because it says something about their attitude.

WayOfTheDodo wrote:

BWE wrote:

WayOfTheDodo wrote:

BWE wrote:
Ah yes, the 'they deserve it' argument. Well done sir. Well done.

Ah yes, the straw man argument. Well done sir. Well done.

Explain how that is a straw man?

You are right. It's not even a straw man. It's just a blatant lie about what I wrote. Nowhere does it say that "they deserve it". What I did was to point out that when a group is overrepresented in violent crime it is logical that the police will be forced to pull guns on them (because they are a bigger threat more often than people not committing violent crimes).

So yeah, not even a straw man argument. Just you fucking lying.

WayOfTheDodo wrote:

Rumraket wrote:

WayOfTheDodo wrote:

Rumraket wrote:What it shows is that blacks are so disproportionately stopped and pulled guns on, that out of that colossal number of times it happens, relatively few of them require the trigger to be pulled. As in police pretty much pull guns on blacks routinely, but consistently discover they don't have to actually kill them.

Well, blacks are also disproportionately involved in crime, particularly violent crime. Is it really a surprise that they get guns pulled on them more frequently?

No, the issue isn't that it is surprising. The issue is that it is racist and unnecessary. After all, not ALL backs are criminals. Right? So why would you pull guns on them so much?

Because guns are more likely to have to be pulled when facing violent crimes. And when blacks are overrepresented, guns are more likely to have to be pulled. Not because they are black, but because they are involved in violent crime.

Hint: "Disproportionately" does not equal "all". Nice try twisting what I wrote though.

Some black people commit lots of crime, therefore we should approach most black people as if they are highly likely to be violent criminals? That's the definition of racism and discrimination. It is to deliberately treat another person differently just because of how they look.

But that's the point. The explanation isn't necessarily racism. An alternative explanation is that cops are pulling out their guns when facing violent crime, and because blacks are disproportionately involved in violent crime that is what makes guns be pulled on more blacks.

Try to put yourself at the recieving end of that for a moment, day in and day out for 30 years of your life. "I had to pull you over and pull a gun on you because statistics show blacks are overrepresented in crime statistics."

Again, that is not my argument. My argument is that they are far more likely to pull out their guns when responding to violent crime. And who's disproportionately involved in violent crime?

WayOfTheDodo wrote:And if we agree that what you are saying is true, the police are in fact showing even more restraint than Oldskeptic credits them with.

No, that's not retraint. Not pulling a gun on them would be to show restraint.

Bullshit. Both are examples of restraint. See above.

WayOfTheDodo wrote:

BWE wrote:

Coining of the phrase; racism Edit

William Ryan coined the phrase "blaming the victim" in his 1971 book Blaming the Victim.[4][5][6][7][8] In the book, Ryan described victim blaming as an ideology used to justify racism and social injustice against black people in the United States.[7] Ryan wrote the book to refute Daniel Patrick Moynihan's 1965 work The Negro Family: The Case for National Action (usually simply referred to as the Moynihan Report).[9]

Moynihan had concluded that three centuries of brutilization at the hands of whites, and in particular the uniquely cruel structure of American slavery as opposed to its Latin American counterparts, had created a long series of chaotic disruptions within the black family structure which, at the time of the report, manifested itself in high rates of unwed births, absent fathers, and single mother households in black families. Moynihan then correlated these familial outcomes, which he considered undesirable, to the relatively poorer rates of employment, educational achievement, and financial success found among the black population. Moynihan advocated the implementation of government programs designed to strengthen the black nuclear family.[citation needed]

Ryan objected that Moynihan then located the proximate cause of the plight of black Americans in the prevalence of a family structure in which the father was often sporadically, if at all, present, and the mother was often dependent on government aid to feed, clothe, and provide medical care for her children. Ryan's critique cast the Moynihan theories as attempts to divert responsibility for poverty from social structural factors to the behavioral and cultural patterns of the poor.[10][11]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victim_blaming

There's a difference between explaining and blaming. Now that you know that your accusation was bullshit because it has been explained to you, how about addressing the actual argument instead?