Not on twitter but I regularly read Paul Joseph Watson and also watch Jordan Peterson

He takes questions once a month and this time was asked what would you tell the Gestapo if you had
Anne Frank in your house. His answer was that if you have let that happen then it is already too late

He is hated by the left for obvious reasons but I have a lot of time for him myself and intend
to watch every video he has ever made. As a psychologist I can learn an awful lot from him

I have also watched Lauren Southern and Tommy Robinson and Katie Hopkins
Hopkins is not really intellectually challenging but I used to listen to her when she was on LBC
She is supposed to be the most hated woman in the country but has never once made me angry

I think Sargon is good because he has a rather analytical approach though I have not watched too much of him
I am not a big fan of Alex Jones even if he is Paul Joseph Watsons boss as he is too conspiracy theory for me
I have watched some of Pat Condell but his videos are mostly about Islam and so quite narrow content wise
There is someone called Opinionated European who I have to check out as I know next to nothing about her

I think that is most if not all of the ones I know

Paul Joseph Watson is a lunatic. Jordan Peterson seems to be a guy who is hailed by some as an intellectual giant, but he seems entirely vacuous to me.

purplerat wrote:

surreptitious57 wrote:
What I find very interesting about all this is how there is absolutely no common ground between the two sides
Each despise the other with a vengeance and it is going to be the state of affairs for a very long time to come
Because neither side has any intention of ever backing down and is not afraid to get dirty if they really have to

It might be helpful if you could specify which two sides you are talking about here. If you are talking about Nazis
vs not Nazis then you are probably mostly right. But if the issue between the two sides you are referring to is free
speech then I think you are wrong

It can be hard to tell the difference for they are not mutually exclusive and are usually found together
Fascists and pro free speechers on one side and anti fascists and anti free speechers on the other side

What is it about fascism and free speech that go together so well? I find this to be rather counterintuitive. I feel like I don't understand what fascism really is.

LucidFlight wrote:What is it about fascism and free speech that go together so well? I find this to be rather counterintuitive. I feel like I don't understand what fascism really is.

I'd think that it comes down to the following:
1. Free speech is the freedom to express even bad and unpopular ideas.
2. No idea is as bad or unpopular as fascism.
3. Ergo, anyone who wants fascism has to support free speech at least initially to get their ideas heard.

Free speech used to be the traditional preserve of the left but because of postmodernism and cultural Marxism and political correctness has now shifted to the right. This is because the left think hate speech should be treated as an entirely separate category from free speech and banned outright. The right disagree and think that the left do not have the moral authority to dictate to anybody else what does and does not constitute free speech. Hence why they now support it more than the left do

Yeah, Jordan Peterson is ridiculous and Cultural Marxism is nothing.

I don't know if this guy is actually a Nazi or a racist or just one of those guys who hasn't picked up on how people on the right use "multiculturalism" and "free speech". Maybe he just doesn't care. Words are nice, but his actions will tell in future. I'm just wondering if the crowd on Twitter jumped on him for "virtue signalling" here? Or are they cool with it because it's helpful?

I'd say what he's doing now is worse than the video. He's providing cover for some very shitty people. Same as the drag queen did by showing up for personal reasons of respect for diversity of opinion. While you're there doing your little bit to stand up for your particular cares, you provide them great optics and their views are the ones that benefit from your appearance. You effectively grant them legitimacy. Any old racist can say they're not racist, they just care about freedom of speech. Fellow racists will go along with it and turn up. But if a black person turns up thinking it's about freedom of speech, a whole bunch of people will turn around and say, "Well, a black person's there. It MUST be about freedom of speech." Their audience increases and now they look legitimate. And I think that's how they've gotten a more diverse crowd here. Having this sort of cover and couching your intentions in more popular rhetoric works with some people.

LucidFlight wrote:What is it about fascism and free speech that go together so well? I find this to be rather counterintuitive. I feel like I don't understand what fascism really is.

If you're actually looking to understand what portions of the Left are talking about with this, Paxton's The Anatomy of Fascism is a good place to start. I think there's a free PDF somewhere online. I don't think it directly addresses freedom of speech, but it makes pretty clear using other cases how that kind of activism can be utilized.

surreptitious57 wrote:

purplerat wrote:

surreptitious57 wrote:
What I find very interesting about all this is how there is absolutely no common ground between the two sides
Each despise the other with a vengeance and it is going to be the state of affairs for a very long time to come
Because neither side has any intention of ever backing down and is not afraid to get dirty if they really have to

It might be helpful if you could specify which two sides you are talking about here. If you are talking about Nazis
vs not Nazis then you are probably mostly right. But if the issue between the two sides you are referring to is free
speech then I think you are wrong

It can be hard to tell the difference for they are not mutually exclusive and are usually found together
Fascists and pro free speechers on one side and anti fascists and anti free speechers on the other side

I doubt very many anti-fascists actually identify as anti-free speech. And many/most free-speechers are distinctly not fascists. Those two subsets I would bet make up the vast majority and there within there is plenty of middle ground and not so much the vitriol you describe.

There's also somewhat of a paradox in linking anybody who is fervently free-speech to also being pro-fascism in that doing so is more than a bit fascist itself.

purplerat wrote:
I doubt very many anti fascists actually identify as anti free speech

ANTIFA most certainly do. For they are totally committed to denying free speech to anyone whose opinions they regard as unacceptable. They think violence against both person and property is entirely justifiable in order to achieve this. Anyone from the right is a legitimate target. They have no respect at all for the principle of free speech other than their own and anyone who disagrees with them is a fascist by default. How representative they are of anti fascists though is hard to say
but they are definitely the most high profile

purplerat wrote:
There is also somewhat of a paradox in linking anybody who is fervently free speech to also being pro fascism

Absolutely. Unfortunately the most prominent free speechers are of the right which makes it very easy for ANTIFA to
label them as fascists regardless of whether they are or not. It is just a rather convenient label to hang on all of them
But pointing out this distinction will only result in one being labelled a fascist themselves by the so called anti fascists

Spinozasgalt wrote:

LucidFlight wrote:What is it about fascism and free speech that go together so well? I find this to be rather counterintuitive. I feel like I don't understand what fascism really is.

If you're actually looking to understand what portions of the Left are talking about with this, Paxton's The Anatomy of Fascism is a good place to start. I think there's a free PDF somewhere online. I don't think it directly addresses freedom of speech, but it makes pretty clear using other cases how that kind of activism can be utilized.

Cheerso mucho! I will look into it.

LucidFlight wrote:

I see Markus Persson (of Minecraft fame) donated £20,000 to Meecham's GoFundMe (I think). Certainly some interesting supporters of the right-wing agenda masquerading as free speech in amongst the Twitter feed there.

Sorry to disappoint, but Notch has shown to have a new right agenda as well.

NineBerry wrote:

LucidFlight wrote:

I see Markus Persson (of Minecraft fame) donated £20,000 to Meecham's GoFundMe (I think). Certainly some interesting supporters of the right-wing agenda masquerading as free speech in amongst the Twitter feed there.

Sorry to disappoint, but Notch has shown to have a new right agenda as well.

I'm aware of some of his anti-SJW Tweets from the past. Not at all disappointed, though. He is entitled to his opinions.

ETA

Although, yes, that donation makes a lot more sense in that light.

I always figured Markus Persson enjoyed a bit of trolling in that regard, but never really saw him as actively pushing a right-wing agenda. That could very well be the case, though. I won't deny that. It's sometimes tough to make a call on what proportion is anti-political-correctness, pro-right-wing, pro-free-speech, or even outright trolling. I do understand the tactic of sneaking in agendas under the guise of something else, and so it pays to be aware - suspicious, cynical, skeptical, even. I would rather used a more nuanced set of brushes to paint the picture, than a broad one that paints everyone as entirely in one camp or the other.

surreptitious57 wrote:

purplerat wrote: I doubt very many anti fascists actually identify as anti free speech

ANTIFA most certainly do. For they are totally committed to denying free speech to anyone whose opinions they regard as unacceptable. They think violence against both person and property is entirely justifiable in order to achieve this. Anyone from the right is a legitimate target. They have no respect at all for the principle of free speech other than their own and anyone who disagrees with them is a fascist by default. How representative they are of anti fascists though is hard to say
but they are definitely the most high profile

Indulge me for a second. Which principle of free speech? Free speech in its hard American 1A guise (and I think we can agree that folks on the right typically gesture at this as representative or ideal) is prohibiting interference from the state. Antifa disrupt the ability of fascists to organise, but they're private actors. Any individual person among them can have their own opinions on freedom of speech, sure. But it seems like you're saying that a particular set of tactics that Antifa employ violate a person's free speech in the 1A sense so that, by employing them, Antifa can be said to be against free speech. Can you explain how you reach your conclusion, if that is your conclusion?

surreptitious57 wrote:

purplerat wrote:
There is also somewhat of a paradox in linking anybody who is fervently free speech to also being pro fascism

Absolutely. Unfortunately the most prominent free speechers are of the right which makes it very easy for ANTIFA to
label them as fascists regardless of whether they are or not. It is just a rather convenient label to hang on all of them
But pointing out this distinction will only result in one being labelled a fascist themselves by the so called anti fascists

How exactly are you defining "most prominent"? I suppose if you myopically view everything through the prism of 'fascism vs anti-fascism' then you might see most prominent free speech advocates as aligned with fascism but if you look at the whole wide rest of the world which doesn't revolve around that one issue you'd find many/most prominent free speech advocates not aligned with or even particularly concerned with fascism.

AntiFa isn't even an organised thing. It's a label distinct groups of people self-identify with. Their opinions and actions are pretty diverse.

OMG...I watched some count dankula videos on youtube and now this ass is all over my recommended videos. Get out of my internet you creep!

Arjan Dirkse wrote:OMG...I watched some count dankula videos on youtube and now this ass is all over my recommended videos. Get out of my internet you creep!

Haha! I have the same problem. It's a bit like a rash. Although, I do love a scratch.