mrjonno wrote:

Warren Dew wrote:

ronmcd wrote:

mrjonno wrote:The poor, unemployed and people on zero hour contracts will stay poor and almost certainly wont notice Brexit (unless their benefits are cuts). This is entirely about dragging the middle classes down to their level

I don't know what this means, or if it's a reply to a point, or a random prediction. I don't understand.

He's saying that the reality is that "leave" voters won't be hurt by Brexit ("unless their benefits are cut"), and what they get out of it is a more egalitarian Britain where the more affluent middle class is dragged down toward their level. Basically he's agreeing with you.

Pretty much, the brexit vote was a combination of the worst bits of nationalism (ie we are superior to everyone else) and the nasty side of extreme socialism ,lets give the 'rich' ie the middle classes a good kicking. Warren Dew as a 'conservative' its absolutely nothing to celebrate

I think the EU is in serious danger of disintegration over the next 5-10 years over issues of nationalism and xenophobia. If the EU is to survive, it needs to back off on federal powers, and return more power to the individual states, at least for the near and medium term.

fisherman wrote:Can we really point to the EU project as being the prime source of peace in European? I'd be curious to know how much the impact nukes have on war calculations. It's just difficult to envisage that were the project to roll back somewhat, as suggested, that old enemy's would tool up again.

Is it really conceivable that UK, France, Germany et all would face off, bristling with nukes as we are?

fisherman wrote:Can we really point to the EU project as being the prime source of peace in European? I'd be curious to know how much the impact nukes have on war calculations. It's just difficult to envisage that were the project to roll back somewhat, as suggested, that old enemy's would tool up again.

Is it really conceivable that UK, France, Germany et all would face off, bristling with nukes as we are?

Alan B wrote:

fisherman wrote:Can we really point to the EU project as being the prime source of peace in European? I'd be curious to know how much the impact nukes have on war calculations. It's just difficult to envisage that were the project to roll back somewhat, as suggested, that old enemy's would tool up again.

Is it really conceivable that UK, France, Germany et all would face off, bristling with nukes as we are?

We've had peace for a long time in this part of the world.

Scot Dutchy wrote:Look most if not all European countries know a union of nations is the only way to protect yourself in the world today. Imagine going back to the days of all the separate currencies constantly the target of speculators on both sides of the pond. Remember the '60's and '70's? It was a mess of ERM and the IMF baling out countries. Greece would have disappeared.

Of course most countries have a love hate relationship with the EU but most realise also it is the only way to survive.

Alan B wrote:

fisherman wrote:Can we really point to the EU project as being the prime source of peace in European? I'd be curious to know how much the impact nukes have on war calculations. It's just difficult to envisage that were the project to roll back somewhat, as suggested, that old enemy's would tool up again.

Is it really conceivable that UK, France, Germany et all would face off, bristling with nukes as we are?

We've had peace for a long time in this part of the world.

You really have no idea. No idea at all.

Scot Dutchy wrote:I dont agree about the cold war etc. It served many masters very well.

Brexit divisions emerge as Whitehall draws up leave scenarios

‘Continuum’ of options stretches from liberal access to single market to stringent border controls alongside trade tariffs

Civil servants have been asked to assess the impact of a wide range of Brexit scenarios, from full membership of the European Economic Area (EEA) to a system under which some Europeans would need visas just to holiday in Britain.

Theresa May gathers her cabinet at Chequers on Wednesday with Brexit at the top of the agenda, and the scenarios exercise has already started to expose potential divisions in government.
The scenario planning is taking place across government with reports expected to be fed into the Brexit department run by David Davis. However, the findings are likely to remain internal.

Some officials at the Foreign Office are pushing for “as much Europe as possible” while others in the Home Office are reluctant to consider full EEA membership or single market access because their priority is an immigration clampdown, according one Whitehall source.

They said government departments were thinking of the possible forms that Brexit could take along a “continuum” stretching from heavy access to the single market with limited restrictions on immigration to stringent border controls alongside trade tariffs imposed under WTO rules.
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