UK: NHS Reforms

chairman bill · **#1221** by **chairman bill** » Mar 13, 2012 9:42 am

Fucking Trotskyite enemies of freedom!

Scot Dutchy · **#1222** by **Scot Dutchy** » Mar 13, 2012 9:51 am

Yes Clegg is now well and truly over a barrel.

talkietoaster · **#1223** by **talkietoaster** » Mar 13, 2012 10:02 am

Tortured_Genius wrote:
Pebble wrote:
A more financially competitive system may well show more flexibility - but will be more expensive in the long run.

FWIW - I personally could make a fortune out of these "reforms". I spent several years as a contractor to the NHS (I'm actually an NHS "preferred supplier"), and left with a job offer on the table, more than I'm earning now.

I'm glad I left. I couldn't stomach the naked greed of the system suppliers, nor the crass stupidy of central government with it's theories about how the service should operate as opposed to the reality experienced by clinical staff on the ground.

That was under Labour.

And it's got worse, orders of magnitude worse.

I look at the fragmented service providers being put into place and I know I could sell the same systems to all of them, over and over and over again for exactly the same price........ Indeed, people will be doing just that.

I get calls from agents daily, but I have more self-respect than to join in on the feast over the corpse that is being to set up to fail, just like the Royal Mail was (and yes, that was under labour, one of the Prince of Darkness's little schemes by all accounts).

And the dedicated staff on the ground deserve better than the wall of shit that's coming down on them.

If I said more would be breaking who knows how many confidentiality clauses, and I'm pissed off.

The NHS has 10 years. Maybe. Tops. After that it'll be just a shell and an excuse to go on collecting NI (which isn't paid by top earners, so sure as hell isn't going to get cut).

The irony is that we knew this was going to happen, but no one expected the devestation to be so deep and so complete.

"The NHS will be safe in our hands" - sickest joke of this generation.

I have only been working as a Healthcare Assistant as a 2nd job at an NHS hospital and I have started to realise why its such a mess. Especially the procurement people get supplys the cost of some injections is crazy and the contract lengths as well.

Paul G · **#1224** by **Paul G** » Mar 13, 2012 11:26 am

Is there any chance of reversing the reforms if Labour are elected in 2015? Assuming they have the political will to do so.

mattthomas · **#1225** by **mattthomas** » Mar 13, 2012 11:30 am

Paul G wrote:Is there any chance of reversing the reforms if Labour are elected in 2015? Assuming they have the political will to do so.

That's what pisses me off about our permanent two horse race, instead of spending their time trying to make the country actually better; it's a few years of reversing all the changes the previous government made... imagine the fucking utopia we could live in if we didn't have that shite all the time.

Paul G · **#1226** by **Paul G** » Mar 13, 2012 11:33 am

Exactly. Right now we can barely hang on to the good things we do have.

Strontium Dog · **#1227** by **Strontium Dog** » Mar 13, 2012 11:35 am

Paul G wrote:Is there any chance of reversing the reforms if Labour are elected in 2015? Assuming they have the political will to do so.

They've already said they won't reverse a single coalition cut, despite campaigning against all of them. And again, despite the rhetoric, I can't see them reversing any NHS reforms either. After all, these reforms are just a logical progression from Labour's own NHS reforms. You have to remember that this is a party of shameless opportunists.

Paul G wrote:Exactly. Right now we can barely hang on to the good things we do have.

Don't worry, if Labour get re-elected, I'm sure you'll be able to get all those wonderful Labour schemes like ID cards and child detention back.

mattthomas · **#1228** by **mattthomas** » Mar 13, 2012 11:47 am

Strontium Dog wrote:
Paul G wrote:Is there any chance of reversing the reforms if Labour are elected in 2015? Assuming they have the political will to do so.

They've already said they won't reverse a single coalition cut, despite campaigning against all of them. And again, despite the rhetoric, I can't see them reversing any NHS reforms either. After all, these reforms are just a logical progression from Labour's own NHS reforms. You have to remember that this is a party of shameless opportunists.

Paul G wrote:Exactly. Right now we can barely hang on to the good things we do have.

Don't worry, if Labour get re-elected, I'm sure you'll be able to get all those wonderful Labour schemes like ID cards and child detention back.

I actually backed the ID scheme to a degree

I didn't realise child detention had gone anywhere
http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/publicatio ... mwZj8wxEBQ

Paul G · **#1229** by **Paul G** » Mar 13, 2012 11:48 am

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... bill-myths

Shirley Williams is an experienced and influential politician whose power to persuade has to some extent swayed the fate of the health and social care bill. But on the evidence of her speech to the Lib Dem spring conference last weekend, she seems to misunderstand the meaning of the law she is so enthusiastically assisting on to the statute book.

Paul G · **#1230** by **Paul G** » Mar 13, 2012 11:50 am

Strontium Dog wrote:
Paul G wrote:Is there any chance of reversing the reforms if Labour are elected in 2015? Assuming they have the political will to do so.

They've already said they won't reverse a single coalition cut, despite campaigning against all of them. And again, despite the rhetoric, I can't see them reversing any NHS reforms either. After all, these reforms are just a logical progression from Labour's own NHS reforms. You have to remember that this is a party of shameless opportunists.

That was before the NHS proposals. And no, I can't either.

Don't worry, if Labour get re-elected, I'm sure you'll be able to get all those wonderful Labour schemes like ID cards and child detention back.

Meh. So I have all 3 major parties ruled out then.

chairman bill · **#1231** by **chairman bill** » Mar 13, 2012 12:02 pm

Strontium Dog wrote:... They've already said they won't reverse a single coalition cut, despite campaigning against all of them.

Misrepresentation. What Ed Balls & Ed Milliband have said is that had Labour been in power, it wouldn't need to make the current cuts, but given the way Osborne has fucked things up, and if he continues to fuck things up, there will be no option to reverse the cuts because we'll be in even deeper shit than we are now. Which isn't quite the same thing as saying they won't reverse the cuts.

And again, despite the rhetoric, I can't see them reversing any NHS reforms either. After all, these reforms are just a logical progression from Labour's own NHS reforms.

Not true, and to whatever extent reversal is allowed for once the Tories bring EU competition law into the equation, the market deforms will be reversed.

You have to remember that this is a party of shameless opportunists.

Ah, insight into your own party's nature, at last, even if it is through projection.

... if Labour get re-elected, I'm sure you'll be able to get all those wonderful Labour schemes like ID cards and child detention back.

But child detention hasn't gone away - your lot have just renamed it.

mattthomas · **#1232** by **mattthomas** » Mar 13, 2012 12:13 pm

chairman bill wrote:
... if Labour get re-elected, I'm sure you'll be able to get all those wonderful Labour schemes like ID cards and child detention back.
But child detention hasn't gone away - your lot have just renamed it.

The document I linked to above showed that as of the 23/02/2012 there are 30 children in detention centres... I do hope that child detention isn't brought back :nono:

Paul G · **#1233** by **Paul G** » Mar 13, 2012 12:18 pm

chairman bill wrote:
Not true, and to whatever extent reversal is allowed for once the Tories bring EU competition law into the equation, the market deforms will be reversed.

How confident of this are you? Given not only the need for political will to reverse them but the myriad number of private interests invested in them.

chairman bill · **#1234** by **chairman bill** » Mar 13, 2012 12:32 pm

Pretty confident. It comes down to a simple reading of the bill, compared to the previous Labour position regarding private involvement & profits from private work. Labour allowed private income to be capped at 2003 rates, which were 2%. Lansley's deforms simply state that a majority must be NHS work, not private. That allows for 49% to be private. Labour tried to amend the new bill so as to replace the 49% limit (clause 164 of the coalition bill) with the earlier Labour NHS Act of 2006 section 44 requirement of 2%. Labour's difficulty will arise from the potential involvement of EU competition regulation, something that will be difficult to reverse.

There is a principle that no government should act to tie the hands of a future government, but the Tories have done it before, and with LibDem complicity might do it again.

Paul G · **#1235** by **Paul G** » Mar 13, 2012 1:01 pm

http://www.guardian.co.uk/healthcare-ne ... CMP=twt_gu

NHS trust in privatisation talks
George Eliot hospital NHS trust is considering outsourcing services to Circle, which already runs Hinchingbrooke hospital

That's 2.

Scot Dutchy · **#1236** by **Scot Dutchy** » Mar 13, 2012 1:07 pm

Paul G wrote:http://www.guardian.co.uk/healthcare-network/2012/mar/13/nhs-trust-george-eliot-hospital-privatisation-talks?CMP=twt_gu

NHS trust in privatisation talks
George Eliot hospital NHS trust is considering outsourcing services to Circle, which already runs Hinchingbrooke hospital

That's 2.

From that article:

"However, with more than 40% of acute trusts yet to gain foundation status and two years to go until the government's deadline, many will consider management outsourcing. The success or failure of the trailblazers will decide whether this becomes a common option."

The thin edge of the private wedge.

chairman bill · **#1237** by **chairman bill** » Mar 13, 2012 1:09 pm

Paul G wrote:http://www.guardian.co.uk/healthcare-network/2012/mar/13/nhs-trust-george-eliot-hospital-privatisation-talks?CMP=twt_gu

NHS trust in privatisation talks
George Eliot hospital NHS trust is considering outsourcing services to Circle, which already runs Hinchingbrooke hospital

That's 2.

But, but <splutter, splutter> Cameron said Hinchingbrooke was a one-off.

mattthomas · **#1238** by **mattthomas** » Mar 13, 2012 1:12 pm

chairman bill wrote:
Paul G wrote:http://www.guardian.co.uk/healthcare-network/2012/mar/13/nhs-trust-george-eliot-hospital-privatisation-talks?CMP=twt_gu

NHS trust in privatisation talks
George Eliot hospital NHS trust is considering outsourcing services to Circle, which already runs Hinchingbrooke hospital

That's 2.

But, but <splutter, splutter> Cameron said Hinchingbrooke was a one-off.

It's not privatisation, it's outsourcing /SD mode

Scot Dutchy · **#1239** by **Scot Dutchy** » Mar 13, 2012 1:12 pm

chairman bill wrote:
Paul G wrote:http://www.guardian.co.uk/healthcare-network/2012/mar/13/nhs-trust-george-eliot-hospital-privatisation-talks?CMP=twt_gu

NHS trust in privatisation talks
George Eliot hospital NHS trust is considering outsourcing services to Circle, which already runs Hinchingbrooke hospital

That's 2.

But, but <splutter, splutter> Cameron said Hinchingbrooke was a one-off.

Whats a few U turns to people like Cameron et al. The tory does nothing else.

Paul G · **#1240** by **Paul G** » Mar 13, 2012 1:17 pm

Slow, gradual, privatisation. That way most people don't notice and by the time everything is sold off they've come to accept it.

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