What with all the crap with the USA's Child-in-chief, storm Doris, etc. The bizarre saga of Kim Jong-Un's brother's killing in Malaysia has so far just been a weird footnote to the news.

However, it seems that Kim Jong-Nam was killed using the nerve agent VX in one of the most heavily used airports in Asia, pretty blatantly by agents of North Korea.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-39073389

I can't help but think this is likely to go far beyond a few angry tweets and a slap on the wrist.

This is shaping up to be a very clever assassination by NK.

Insanely lucky there weren't many, many more casualties.

Why the hell would you use VX to assassinate someone, its a weapon of mass destruction not one of subtle or even unsubtle assasination.
I suspect less than the full truth here

Alleged assassination by NK and no.

Would we call a rag soaked with liquid VX a weapon of mass destruction?

mrjonno wrote:Why the hell would you use VX to assassinate someone, its a weapon of mass destruction not one of subtle or even unsubtle assasination.
I suspect less than the full truth here

Why use something like VX?

Because, contrary to public entertainment media, there aren't a lot of instant-acting poisons out there.

It's like asking why inject someone with a ricin-laced pellet in an assassination? Because it fucking works, and it doesn't involve trying to get a gun through metal detectors.

Yup, seem like a good idea to assassinate someone at the airport.

It's a great place to get at someone who has to use public transportation networks, and to get through whatever usual security systems they have in place.

People drop their guard significantly when they perceive, rightly or wrongly, that they're inside a secure area.

Add in the other details of this assassination method, and, as I said, it's quite clever.

Yup, its so clever that its close to genius as statistics of assassinations would probably tell us.

Weaver wrote:
Because, contrary to public entertainment media, there aren't a lot of instant-acting poisons out there.

I imagine it was chosen over any other option that is far more likely to fail or work slowly enough for the victim to talk to every news outlet that can fit through the hospital room door. VX is insta death and easily applied as we have seen here.

Also there is the fact that NK's dear leader doesn't give a single fuck.

Well, if the dear .. ? .. leader has access to anyone who read "PR for dummies" I would guess he gives a fuck, hence the airport with camera footage and guaranteed coverage. Even @ rationalskepitcism.org

The_Metatron wrote:Would we call a rag soaked with liquid VX a weapon of mass destruction?

Yes. Why not?

That entire area is going to have to be decontamination now.

Acetone wrote:

The_Metatron wrote:Would we call a rag soaked with liquid VX a weapon of mass destruction?

Yes. Why not?

That entire area is going to have to be decontamination now.

That's like draining a water reservoir because someone took a piss in it.

Not to say it hasn't been done - but it's excessive and likely totally unnecessary.

The fact that two women with wet hands wiped his face is highly suggestive that they were taking advantage of the two-part nature of VX - kept apart, the two chemicals are not particularly hazardous, but combine readily to form the nerve agent. Simply mopping the floor and inspecting the trash while emptying it (which I'm sure was already done) should be quite sufficient.

I'd imagine any collateral damage would have been obvious by now, so whether by design or luck, it looks likely nobody else will be affected.

Except every single North Korean involved, they'll all probably be killed, just because the mad wee fat fucker is a madman.

Sure if the piss could kill someone.

Also, there are known others affected. At least one female AFAIK has symptoms of VX exposure.

Who knows who else was exposed. They'd go home and throw up.

It's amazing that they were able to identify the toxin, when it's rare and tiny quantities are fatal. Unless the world's spooks are constantly geared up for such things: uncomfortable thought.

It's not difficult to identify organophosphorus compounds, of which VX is one. Since many commercial insecticides contain similar chemical groupings, toxicology laboratories are able to detect whether an organophsophorus compound was implicated in a poisoning incident, because tests for the requisite chemical grouping immediately allows the toxicologist to start homing in on the precise identity of the compound. Compounds such as glyphosate (the principal ingredient in RoundUp) and malathion (a commercial insecticide) bear interesting chemical similarities to VX, as these graphics show:

[1] Malathion:



[2] VX:



[3] Assorted phosphonates (glyphosate is second on the left):



In addition, VX contains a P-S bond, which would yield an interesting NMR spectrum on its own. GCMS would also pinpoint this unusual bond quickly.

Oeditor wrote:It's amazing that they were able to identify the toxin, when it's rare and tiny quantities are fatal. Unless the world's spooks are constantly geared up for such things: uncomfortable thought.

Given the extremely high profile of the victim and the method that was used to apply the poison and how rapid the effect, I'm certain they were already looking for a select few poisons. A simply face swab would probably provide enough for analysis.

Another reason organophosphorus chemistry is not exactly secret squirrel material, is because some organophosphorus compounds also have medical uses. Bisphosphonates are used in the treatment of osteoporosis, for example. The chemistry involved in the synthesis of a wide range of such compounds is broadly similar to the synthesis of the more toxic insecticides. So it wouldn't be difficult for any competent forensic lab to detect a member of a group of compounds that's been a staple of organic chemistry for over 80 years.

Oeditor wrote:It's amazing that they were able to identify the toxin, when it's rare and tiny quantities are fatal. Unless the world's spooks are constantly geared up for such things: uncomfortable thought.

Its not exactly rare.

It was discovered in the 50s and has been heavily researched since then.