Emmeline wrote:

Skinny Puppy wrote:
Can a person not be emphatic towards others, help those that need help, fight for good and just causes, treat everyone as an equal regardless of their race, sex, colour etc, be a champion of fair justice for all etc. etc. without wearing a feminist banner?

Yes indeed and I have found that as much progress in equality has been made in the UK in my lifetime, the use of the word feminist has become less important to me here. However, it's a word I don't shy away from entirely because there are still people (mainly elderly or religious) who strongly believe that women shouldn't have a career if they have a family, that men should have preferential promotion & higher pay, that men are the head of the family etc. When I meet attitudes like that, I have no difficulty using the word feminist in describing why I don't share their values.

Scarlett wrote:

Emmeline wrote:

Skinny Puppy wrote:
Can a person not be emphatic towards others, help those that need help, fight for good and just causes, treat everyone as an equal regardless of their race, sex, colour etc, be a champion of fair justice for all etc. etc. without wearing a feminist banner?

Yes indeed and I have found that as much progress in equality has been made in the UK in my lifetime, the use of the word feminist has become less important to me here. However, it's a word I don't shy away from entirely because there are still people (mainly elderly or religious) who strongly believe that women shouldn't have a career if they have a family, that men should have preferential promotion & higher pay, that men are the head of the family etc. When I meet attitudes like that, I have no difficulty using the word feminist in describing why I don't share their values.

But to balance that, while I agree that the attitudes you describe are there, I wouldn't be keen on being the male in that scenario either. These same people will believe men must be strong, are cissies if they cry, must work their bollocks off to feed their families, must put their own lives at risk to protect the 'weaker' humans, must give up custody of their children to the mothers who are after all best placed to be the carer etc.

Scarlett wrote:I'm just not keen on labels. I'm not any more outraged about women's issues than I am about men's issues, or gay people's or disabled people's, or black people's, or transsexuals.

I am uncomfortable with how 'feminism' (and MR but that's not the topic) manifests it's self, even the 'moderates' can make me cringe. I don't relate to much of what they tell me I should relate to, I don't feel affinity with a person purely based on genitalia.

Emmeline wrote:

Scarlett wrote:

Emmeline wrote:

Skinny Puppy wrote:
Can a person not be emphatic towards others, help those that need help, fight for good and just causes, treat everyone as an equal regardless of their race, sex, colour etc, be a champion of fair justice for all etc. etc. without wearing a feminist banner?

Yes indeed and I have found that as much progress in equality has been made in the UK in my lifetime, the use of the word feminist has become less important to me here. However, it's a word I don't shy away from entirely because there are still people (mainly elderly or religious) who strongly believe that women shouldn't have a career if they have a family, that men should have preferential promotion & higher pay, that men are the head of the family etc. When I meet attitudes like that, I have no difficulty using the word feminist in describing why I don't share their values.

But to balance that, while I agree that the attitudes you describe are there, I wouldn't be keen on being the male in that scenario either. These same people will believe men must be strong, are cissies if they cry, must work their bollocks off to feed their families, must put their own lives at risk to protect the 'weaker' humans, must give up custody of their children to the mothers who are after all best placed to be the carer etc.

I completely agree & it's often argued that feminism has been beneficial to men in lots of ways.

Scarlett wrote:I'm just not keen on labels. I'm not any more outraged about women's issues than I am about men's issues, or gay people's or disabled people's, or black people's, or transsexuals.

I am uncomfortable with how 'feminism' (and MR but that's not the topic) manifests it's self, even the 'moderates' can make me cringe. I don't relate to much of what they tell me I should relate to, I don't feel affinity with a person purely based on genitalia.

Scarlett wrote:
Then why call it feminism?

surreptitious57 wrote:

Skinny Puppy wrote:
Can a person not be emphatic towards others, help those that need help, fight for
good and just causes, treat everyone as an equal regardless of their race, sex, colour
etc, be a champion of fair justice for all etc. etc. without wearing a feminist banner?

Well that person would by default be a feminist anyway. Though
how they chose to label themselves would be entirely arbitrary

DaveDodo007 wrote:What adult attaches a label to themselves as it is beyond pathetic. Can anybody have their whole world experience and beliefs summed up in one or a few words. How simplistic must your world view be to be able to do that. Think how complex and complicated your interactions are with the world at large is. Think how nounce your inter species reactions are, your human relationships are going to be stellar, can you really pigeon hole them into a box. It is very sad that people limit themselves in such a way, curtailing your imagination rather than embracing it, looks like crabs in a bucket to me.

Scarlett wrote:Then why call it feminism?

DaveDodo007 wrote:What adult attaches a label to themselves as it is beyond pathetic. Can anybody have their whole world experience and beliefs summed up in one or a few words. How simplistic must your world view be to be able to do that. Think how complex and complicated your interactions are with the world at large is. Think how nounce your inter species reactions are, your human relationships are going to be stellar, can you really pigeon hole them into a box. It is very sad that people limit themselves in such a way, curtailing your imagination rather than embracing it, looks like crabs in a bucket to me.

Lowpro wrote:

DaveDodo007 wrote:What adult attaches a label to themselves as it is beyond pathetic. Can anybody have their whole world experience and beliefs summed up in one or a few words. How simplistic must your world view be to be able to do that. Think how complex and complicated your interactions are with the world at large is. Think how nounce your inter species reactions are, your human relationships are going to be stellar, can you really pigeon hole them into a box. It is very sad that people limit themselves in such a way, curtailing your imagination rather than embracing it, looks like crabs in a bucket to me.

Communication majors collectively facepalm =\

Boyle wrote:

Scarlett wrote:Then why call it feminism?

Inertia. Unfortunately, I do know many young men (college age) that aren't too keen on using the term feminist as a way to describe their stance on gender relations. The connection, for them, to radical feminists of the balls-chopping-off variety is too strong. It also smacks of exclusion.

I still enjoy using the term, though, as it often sets the stage for a discussion, as I am don't fit the mold of a feminist.

DaveDodo007 wrote:What adult attaches a label to themselves as it is beyond pathetic. Can anybody have their whole world experience and beliefs summed up in one or a few words. How simplistic must your world view be to be able to do that. Think how complex and complicated your interactions are with the world at large is. Think how nounce your inter species reactions are, your human relationships are going to be stellar, can you really pigeon hole them into a box. It is very sad that people limit themselves in such a way, curtailing your imagination rather than embracing it, looks like crabs in a bucket to me.

Who said that labels must be so paralyzing as that? You clearly recognize the issue that strict labels bring, so why should you be held to those narrow definitions? You can use labels and recognize that they aren't the end-all, be-all of defining yourself, or others. Labels are a quick way to distill one's preferences and don't have to be so rigid as to trap a person within those preferences.

DaveDodo007 wrote:Erm... You seem to have no concept of what labels are, so enjoy your bucket.

Lowpro wrote:

DaveDodo007 wrote:What adult attaches a label to themselves as it is beyond pathetic. Can anybody have their whole world experience and beliefs summed up in one or a few words. How simplistic must your world view be to be able to do that. Think how complex and complicated your interactions are with the world at large is. Think how nounce your inter species reactions are, your human relationships are going to be stellar, can you really pigeon hole them into a box. It is very sad that people limit themselves in such a way, curtailing your imagination rather than embracing it, looks like crabs in a bucket to me.

Communication majors collectively facepalm =\

Regina wrote:

surreptitious57 wrote:

Skinny Puppy wrote:
Can a person not be emphatic towards others, help those that need help, fight for
good and just causes, treat everyone as an equal regardless of their race, sex, colour
etc, be a champion of fair justice for all etc. etc. without wearing a feminist banner?

Well that person would by default be a feminist anyway. Though
how they chose to label themselves would be entirely arbitrary

No. Unless, as I said before, your point of reference are people's genitals.

DaveDodo007 wrote:What adult attaches a label to themselves as it is beyond pathetic. Can anybody have their whole world experience and beliefs summed up in one or a few words. How simplistic must your world view be to be able to do that. Think how complex and complicated your interactions are with the world at large is. Think how nounce your inter species reactions are, your human relationships are going to be stellar, can you really pigeon hole them into a box. It is very sad that people limit themselves in such a way, curtailing your imagination rather than embracing it, looks like crabs in a bucket to me.