A very rare argument used by theists against atheists is that the latter are...well...a little bonkers and not quite right in the head (the signs of the Creator in Nature being just too obvious to the rational observer - Rom 1:20). However, science is now showing that people with serious mental and behavioural issues, such as autism (including asperger's syndrome), may be pathologically predispositioned to be atheists since they cannot accept a higher power that is greater than themselves:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/matthew-h ... 57098.html

One scientific paper provides compelling evidence that:"Persons with autistic spectrum disorder were much more likely than those in our neurotypical comparison group to identify as atheist or agnostic."

http://csjarchive.cogsci.rpi.edu/procee ... er0782.pdf

So, does this finding indicate the possibility that atheism could be a neurological condition as much as a phenomenon due to environmental conditioning, education, evolution and so forth?

No, because the vast majority of atheists don't have those conditions.

Moreover, even if they did, the duplicitous apologetic well poisoning erected by particularly nasty brands of supernaturalists fails on several grounds. One, autistic spectrum conditions are not cognitive deficits, and several peer reviewed scientific papers have been telling us this for the best part of 15 years. Two, a preference for logic and evidence over fanciful fabrication should be regarded as an asset, not a deficit, as indeed they are thus regarded in the empirical sciences. Three, if supernaturalists have to resort to this sort of cheap tactic, in order to prop up their preference for made up mythology over reality, doesn't this tell us more about them, and the vacuousness of their worldview, than it does about atheists, autistic or not?

And fourth: if there is autism making belief in Gawd harder, the said Gawd must be a cruel fucker for making it harder for people to find salvation.

I don't see any sort of problem with this. Autistic people are more likely to be atheists. It doesn't mean that therefore all atheists are autistic.

If I said that convicts are more likely to be religious, it doesn't mean that all religious people are convicts.

One possibility could be that people who have autism have a certain brain chemistry that precludes so-called 'peak' experiences, which for many religious people are important in maintaining their faith or getting them into a religious mindset in the first place.

Nora_Leonard wrote:One possibility could be that people who have autism have a certain brain chemistry that precludes so-called 'peak' experiences, which for many religious people are important in maintaining their faith or getting them into a religious mindset in the first place.

That is an interesting possibility. But why would normal brain chemistry involve such "peak" experiences?

The handful of autistic people I know are really smart.

quisquose wrote:The handful of autistic people I know are really smart.

That's usually an obstacle when trying to peddle superstitious bullshit to them...

trubble76 wrote:I don't see any sort of problem with this. Autistic people are more likely to be atheists. It doesn't mean that therefore all atheists are autistic.

If I said that convicts are more likely to be religious, it doesn't mean that all religious people are convicts.

Of course. But it does raise the possibility that atheism may be down to nature as much as it is to nurture. We now know that there are rare genetic mutations that are associated with autistic behavioural disorders: http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/07/11 ... -disorder/

So,there may be other genetic mutations that make some people more inclined to non-belief and influence their understanding of life and the universe. It may explain why people exposed to the same social background and environmental conditions can have completely different religious views. We do know that there are mutations that make people more anxious or less caring. The intriguing thing is that natural selection appears to have favored religiosity over non-belief. It is only when we decided to live outside of the protective custody of natural selection over the last 200 years that atheism began to take root in society.

quisquose wrote:The handful of autistic people I know are really smart.

They do tend to be very intelligent. But they also tend to see everything revolving around them which makes it very hard for them to believe in a Supreme Being other than their own individual selves.

Whoopie wrote:

trubble76 wrote:I don't see any sort of problem with this. Autistic people are more likely to be atheists. It doesn't mean that therefore all atheists are autistic.

If I said that convicts are more likely to be religious, it doesn't mean that all religious people are convicts.

Of course. But it does raise the possibility that atheism may be down to nature as much as it is to nurture. We now know that there are rare genetic mutations that are associated with autistic behavioural disorders: http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/07/11 ... -disorder/

So,there may be other genetic mutations that make some people more inclined to non-belief and influence their understanding of life and the universe. It may explain why people exposed to the same social background and environmental conditions can have completely different religious views. We do know that there are mutations that make people more anxious or less caring. The intriguing thing is that natural selection appears to have favored religiosity over non-belief. It is only when we decided to live outside of the protective custody of natural selection over the last 200 years that atheism began to take root in society.

Also people now can question idiotic supernaturalist drivel without getting into trouble. Think about that.
No need to invoke evolution or anything along that line.

Whoopie wrote:

trubble76 wrote:I don't see any sort of problem with this. Autistic people are more likely to be atheists. It doesn't mean that therefore all atheists are autistic.

If I said that convicts are more likely to be religious, it doesn't mean that all religious people are convicts.

Of course. But it does raise the possibility that atheism may be down to nature as much as it is to nurture. We now know that there are rare genetic mutations that are associated with autistic behavioural disorders: http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/07/11 ... -disorder/

So,there may be other genetic mutations that make some people more inclined to non-belief and influence their understanding of life and the universe. It may explain why people exposed to the same social background and environmental conditions can have completely different religious views. We do know that there are mutations that make people more anxious or less caring. The intriguing thing is that natural selection appears to have favored religiosity over non-belief. It is only when we decided to live outside of the protective custody of natural selection over the last 200 years that atheism began to take root in society.

I suppose it may be a component but I suspect the picture is somewhat more complicated. If it was a simple genetic effect, I would expect numbers of atheists to be more or less equal historically and geographically. Atheists that pretend to be theists to avoid persecution would complicate matters further.
The evidence for a link between atheism and education and wealth seems far stronger.

Whoopie wrote:
So, does this finding indicate the possibility that atheism could be a neurological condition as much as a phenomenon due to environmental conditioning, education, evolution and so forth?

I don't think so. I would have thought it would be very difficult to indoctrinate an autistic person with a belief in the supernatural, which I think is the mechanism by which the overwhelming majority of theists come by their 'beliefs'.

What do you think and are you a theist or an atheist?

Briton wrote:

Whoopie wrote:
So, does this finding indicate the possibility that atheism could be a neurological condition as much as a phenomenon due to environmental conditioning, education, evolution and so forth?

I don't think so. I would have thought it would be very difficult to indoctrinate an autistic person with a belief in the supernatural, which I think is the mechanism by which the overwhelming majority of theists come by their 'beliefs'.

What do you think and are you a theist or an atheist?

You are assuming that most religious people come to their beliefs through indoctrination. I am a skeptical theist.

Most religious people do come to their beliefs through indoctrination.

Whoopie wrote:

Briton wrote:

Whoopie wrote:
So, does this finding indicate the possibility that atheism could be a neurological condition as much as a phenomenon due to environmental conditioning, education, evolution and so forth?

I don't think so. I would have thought it would be very difficult to indoctrinate an autistic person with a belief in the supernatural, which I think is the mechanism by which the overwhelming majority of theists come by their 'beliefs'.

What do you think and are you a theist or an atheist?

You are assuming that most religious people come to their beliefs through indoctrination. I am a skeptical theist.

That's an oxymoron.
And yes, most religious people come to their beliefs through indoctrination. Then, a number likes to pretend they didn't. I've a feeling you're of the latter variant.

Whoopie wrote:

quisquose wrote:The handful of autistic people I know are really smart.

They do tend to be very intelligent. But they also tend to see everything revolving around them which makes it very hard for them to believe in a Supreme Being other than their own individual selves.

Baron-Cohen also talks a lot about empathy, doesn't he, or the ability to conceive of another, or another's interests? (OK, rather similar to what you just said!). I don't recall that he ever directly linked empathy with being religious, but I vaguely remember that some people have made the link that God is the supreme Other! I think this has also been linked with sex differences, the idea that women are more likely to be religious. But this is complicated by social conditions, since in many cultures, women are expected to be religious. I don't know how the hell you sort all that out. There's some kind of link with professions as well, e.g. the idea that GPs are more likely to be religious than surgeons, and so on. Haven't got a link.

Skeptical theist: snap. Well, I'm not sure.

Scar wrote:

Whoopie wrote:

Briton wrote:

Whoopie wrote:
So, does this finding indicate the possibility that atheism could be a neurological condition as much as a phenomenon due to environmental conditioning, education, evolution and so forth?

I don't think so. I would have thought it would be very difficult to indoctrinate an autistic person with a belief in the supernatural, which I think is the mechanism by which the overwhelming majority of theists come by their 'beliefs'.

What do you think and are you a theist or an atheist?

You are assuming that most religious people come to their beliefs through indoctrination. I am a skeptical theist.

That's an oxymoron.
And yes, most religious people come to their beliefs through indoctrination. Then, a number likes to pretend they didn't. I've a feeling you're of the latter variant.

No. Most people come to their beliefs due to environmental and cultural conditioning just as many atheists do. The question here is whether there is a genetic component also involved. I am a skeptic - i.e one who questions and inquires - but who has come to the realization (based on all of the evidence) that there is a Supreme Being who created Nature from nothing.

Lol.