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MattHunX wrote:Favorite debaters:
Hitchens, Harris and Barker and I really starting to like PZ.
The best debate, and also, the most annoying one was that battle royale with Hitchens, Harris and Dennett Vs. D'Souza *stab*, Boteach *stab* and some guy named Taleb *no reason to kill him really, seemed like a nice enough person*
I loved the way Dennett and Hitchens have caught D'Souza lying again. He was talking about evolution again, I think, and they pointed it out to him on the podium too.
How Hitchens doesn't get bored and annoyed debating D'Souza and Boteach over and over again, with them bringing the same, lame, age-old argument (you know, Hitler and Stalin were "atheists") is beyond me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hnqo4_X7PE
Debates I would like to see
Richard Dawkins vs. William Lane Craig
Richard Dawkins vs. Alvin Plantinga
Peter Singer vs. Alvin Plantinga
wonka08 wrote:This I thought was a very good debate on TAG with Matt Slick and Matt Dillahunty. It took place on the Atheist Experience. Matt Dillahunty (Show host) seems to be an intelligent man.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rb1mfKJU ... re=related
The Doctor wrote:What are some of the best debates you have seen between nontheists and theists? Who are your favorite debaters? Also, are there any debates you would like to see?
Some of my favorite debates:
Peter Singer vs. Dinesh D'Souza - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Phgb67NAaHA
Bart Ehrman vs. William Lane Craig - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhT4IENSwac
Peter Singer vs. John Hare - http://static.veritas.org/media/files/v09mit03.mov
My favorite debaters
Peter Singer
Bart Ehrman
Debates I would like to see
Richard Dawkins vs. William Lane Craig
Richard Dawkins vs. Alvin Plantinga
Peter Singer vs. Alvin Plantinga
I'm sure most of you saw the Hitchens/Craig debate. I thought that one went terrible, Hitchens could have done a much better job. I don't think Hitchens was prepared for what Bill presented, and he made Hitchens look really sloppy. However, if you want to see William Lane Craig get put in his place then watch the Ehrman/Craig debate. I've heard a lot of Christians say Alvin Plantinga is hot stuff, so I'd like to see him debate Dawkins, because Plantiga debates on science and religion compatibility. But it is because I study the problem of evil a great deal that I know of Plantinga, and he seems to be one of the biggest defenders on that issue for the theists. For that reason I'd like to see Plantinga debate Singer because they are both pure philosophy and opposing sides, that debate would be a dream come true for me. I want to see Plantinga vs. Dawkins or Singer for a pure clash of intellect and I want to see William Lane Craig debate Dawkins so he can be put in his place again because I really don't like him. I think William Lane Craig is dishonest and really doesn't care about truth because he puts his own religious agenda ahead of the search for truth and you can see it in some of his debates or talks. I'd like to know some of the debates you all like the most. I have more that I really like but the ones I mentioned are my top favorites.
AE wrote:“The word god is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honorable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can change this.”
Mick wrote:In regards to Virlandi's video,
Craig didn't present Ehrman with a mathematical proof that God exists. He presented Ehrman with Bayes theorem and Swinburne's use of it within the philosophical debate regarding miracles. The argument functions, if true, as an indirect inductive argument for God's existence.
The narrator says that 'things got so bad' for Craig that he had to preach. That's silly. At the end of most of Craig's debates, he talks about the inner witness of Christ. The object here is simple: if the evidence does not sway you one way or another, there is another form of private evidence which is self-verifying and that's the presence of God, the Holy spirit, within you. It's not something he does when he's in trouble. One of his goals, among others, is to keep and gain Christians. So, he appeals to those of whom may not have been entirely convinced by the evidence given within the debate.
I have no comment on the evolutionary part. I have no education in it.
Just a note on the last part. Craig only said that the knowledge of God is evident to all people from nature. He didn't say it was "clearly" or "obviously" evident as the narrator conveys. I'm also not sure why he thinks Craig is a hypocrite.
... I'm also not sure why he thinks Craig is a hypocrite.
murshid wrote:Here are a few I liked:
1. Craig vs. Arif Ahmed (mp3, RatSkep thread on the debate)
2. Craig vs. Raymond Bradley (mp3, debate transcript)
3. Craig vs. Shelly Kagan (mp3, video)
Those three guys did really well against Craig.
.
andrewk wrote:[Craig] uses tactics that tilt the battlefield in his favour, but which few opponents are perceptive enough to spot or to challenge him on
andrewk wrote:The other one that I thought matched Craig was John Shook.
andrewk wrote:Shook and Ahmed either matched Craig or came close, but I would go so far as to say that Kagan "won" his debate with Craig, which is high praise indeed.
Byron wrote:Craig rigs the deck by crafting propositions that create his desired end. Ie, "If the world exists, it must ride through space atop a giant turtle; the world exists; ergo, giant turtle (and probably elephants)". All you need to do to pull the rug from under him is throw a spot on the stage magic and challenge Craig to back up his assertions. Takes under a minute. How's that for time management?
andrewk wrote:However I think the mistake most of Craig's opponents make is not preparing for the debate by studying Craig's arguments and tactics.
murshid wrote:Well, if you ask [Craig] to back up his assertion about, say, the universe beginning to exist, he would just quote-mine some cosmologists and appeal to authority. At the time of a debate, it's not possible to check the quotes or the authority he dishonestly uses to support his claims. But such appeals to authority do convince the gullible, which is why he is often considered as the winner.
Byron wrote:murshid wrote:Well, if you ask [Craig] to back up his assertion about, say, the universe beginning to exist, he would just quote-mine some cosmologists and appeal to authority. At the time of a debate, it's not possible to check the quotes or the authority he dishonestly uses to support his claims. But such appeals to authority do convince the gullible, which is why he is often considered as the winner.
Two can play the authority fallacy. People go into these debates prepped, so if you want to go that route, have a stack of quotes from cosmologists who counter Craig.
Better yet, call him out, explain the authority fallacy (lots of people don't know it is a fallacy, or why it is), and put the smug snake on the spot as to why a such a suave philosopher is running with this Middle School crap.
murshid wrote:Byron wrote:murshid wrote:Well, if you ask [Craig] to back up his assertion about, say, the universe beginning to exist, he would just quote-mine some cosmologists and appeal to authority. At the time of a debate, it's not possible to check the quotes or the authority he dishonestly uses to support his claims. But such appeals to authority do convince the gullible, which is why he is often considered as the winner.
Two can play the authority fallacy. People go into these debates prepped, so if you want to go that route, have a stack of quotes from cosmologists who counter Craig.
Better yet, call him out, explain the authority fallacy (lots of people don't know it is a fallacy, or why it is), and put the smug snake on the spot as to why a such a suave philosopher is running with this Middle School crap.
I think both are good ideas if used in tandem. I wonder why more people don't call him out on the fallacy. Arif Ahmed came close and mentioned that he himself is not going to appeal to authority; but that didn't stop Craig from doing it.
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