Craig and homosexuality

Rumraket · #1 by **Rumraket** » Aug 25, 2012 5:41 pm

Just when I thought I could't lose any more respect for the man, I see this:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9qsSunree4[/youtube]

Is there even a subject where Craig isn't just completely aligned with but outright supporting Classic Creotard Christofascism?

John P. M. · #2 by **John P. M.** » Aug 25, 2012 6:43 pm

Genetic defect like his neuro-muscular disease, eh?

What if being a cripple was said to be a sin in the Bible? What would Craig do? Hammer his fingers into place? Be a person with neuro-muscular disease, but not 'live it out' by actually having locked fingers?

Oh - on that note:

Exodus 4:11 (NASB): "The LORD said to him, "Who has made man's mouth? Or who makes him mute or deaf, or seeing or blind? Is it not I, the LORD?"

Leviticus 21:17-21 (NASB): "Speak to Aaron, saying, 'No man of your offspring throughout their generations who has a defect shall approach to offer the food of his God. | 'For no one who has a defect shall approach: a blind man, or a lame man, or he who has a disfigured face, or any deformed limb, | or a man who has a broken foot or broken hand, | or a hunchback or a dwarf, or one who has a defect in his eye or eczema or scabs or crushed testicles. | 'No man among the descendants of Aaron the priest who has a defect is to come near to offer the LORD'S offerings by fire; since he has a defect, he shall not come near to offer the food of his God."

Ostracized and stigmatized for something they couldn't help sound familiar? Seems there's a looooooong line of douchebaggery that Craig has to live up to.

Corke · #3 by **Corke** » Aug 27, 2012 11:27 am

I wonder if he actually believes what he's saying, or is just trying to score brownie points with the fundies. Either way, he's a dishonest douche.

swiatlo · #4 by **swiatlo** » Sep 18, 2012 9:59 pm

John P. M. wrote:What if being a cripple was said to be a sin in the Bible?

What if being a cripple was said to be a sin in the Bible? But is it?
Being sick, cripple and ultimately dying is not a sin. Those are effects of man's sin, physical manifestation of spiritual death and separation from God (giver of life, health and prosperity).

Oh - on that note:
Exodus 4:11 (NASB):
[b]Leviticus 21:17-21 (NASB)[/i]

Ostracized and stigmatized for something they couldn't help sound familiar? Seems there's a looooooong line of douchebaggery that Craig has to live up to.

Not only people with outstanding "defects" were excluded from serving at the altar. God does not have to conform to politically correct lies. If he want to send a message he does that the way he choses.

Kazaman · #5 by **Kazaman** » Sep 18, 2012 10:08 pm

I heard that podcast a number of months ago. It disgusts me than he and other apologists fling such shit from their mouths while paying no heed to the devastating and often immutable damage it causes to gay Christians.

trubble76 · #6 by **trubble76** » Sep 18, 2012 10:13 pm

swiatlo wrote:
John P. M. wrote:What if being a cripple was said to be a sin in the Bible?

What if being a cripple was said to be a sin in the Bible? But is it?
Being sick, cripple and ultimately dying is not a sin. Those are effects of man's sin, physical manifestation of spiritual death and separation from God (giver of life, health and prosperity).

Oh - on that note:
Exodus 4:11 (NASB):
[b]Leviticus 21:17-21 (NASB)[/i]

Ostracized and stigmatized for something they couldn't help sound familiar? Seems there's a looooooong line of douchebaggery that Craig has to live up to.

Not only people with outstanding "defects" were excluded from serving at the altar. God does not have to conform to politically correct lies. If he want to send a message he does that the way he choses.

You don't believe in germs, genetics, disease and modern medicine in general? You think illness is caused by sin? What about babies that get ill? What sins did they commit?
When you get ill, do you use medicine?
The god you describe sounds like a right cunt, I don't really have any use for a god like that.

Kazaman · #7 by **Kazaman** » Sep 18, 2012 10:15 pm

swiatlo wrote:
John P. M. wrote:What if being a cripple was said to be a sin in the Bible?

What if being a cripple was said to be a sin in the Bible? But is it?
Being sick, cripple and ultimately dying is not a sin. Those are effects of man's sin, physical manifestation of spiritual death and separation from God (giver of life, health and prosperity).

Oh - on that note:
Exodus 4:11 (NASB):
[b]Leviticus 21:17-21 (NASB)[/i]

Ostracized and stigmatized for something they couldn't help sound familiar? Seems there's a looooooong line of douchebaggery that Craig has to live up to.

Not only people with outstanding "defects" were excluded from serving at the altar. God does not have to conform to politically correct lies. If he want to send a message he does that the way he choses.

What exactly are the lies to which you're alluding?

Rumraket · #8 by **Rumraket** » Sep 19, 2012 5:47 am

swiatlo wrote:
John P. M. wrote:What if being a cripple was said to be a sin in the Bible?

What if being a cripple was said to be a sin in the Bible? But is it?
Being sick, cripple and ultimately dying is not a sin. Those are effects of man's sin, physical manifestation of spiritual death and separation from God (giver of life, health and prosperity).

No they aren't. Being sick is caused by infection by microoganisms and the immuneresponse thereto. Being crippled is often caused by car accidents or whatever. I don't see any involvement of god anywhere here I'm afraid.

And there is no evidence that there is such a thing as a human soul, which makes the idea of "spiritual death" meaningless and incoherent.

swiatlo wrote:Not only people with outstanding "defects" were excluded from serving at the altar. God does not have to conform to politically correct lies. If he want to send a message he does that the way he choses.

Luckily, there is no evidence that god exists, since he's such a fucking asshole according to the faitheads.

swiatlo · #9 by **swiatlo** » Sep 19, 2012 12:53 pm

trubble76 wrote:What about babies that get ill? What sins did they commit?
When you get ill, do you use medicine?

Babies commit no sin yet. Effect of a sin is/can be inherited (look at genetic related disease). Babies are subject to the natural conditions as any one of us and can get ill.
I do believe "in germs, genetics, disease and modern medicine in general". All I am trying to explain is the biblical view. The effect of sin is that we fell out of God’s favour and presence, and became subject to laws that govern this world which includes germs, accidents, death and so on. There is as well strong correlation between long and healthy life with living according to God’s advices.
In the clip WL Craig does not say that homosexuality is a disease but is devastating like a disease. He explores “what if it was a disease”. It is psychiatric conditions: it was on the list of psychiatric disorders for a long time. There are cases of successful treatments and reinstatement to heterosexuality – I personally have met two such men that have changed.

Fenrir · **#10** by **Fenrir** » Sep 19, 2012 1:01 pm

There is as well strong correlation between long and healthy life with living according to God’s advices.

Citation needed, cause I have a feeling you are making it up as you go along.

trubble76 · **#11** by **trubble76** » Sep 19, 2012 1:02 pm

swiatlo wrote:
trubble76 wrote:What about babies that get ill? What sins did they commit?
When you get ill, do you use medicine?

Babies commit no sin yet. Effect of a sin is/can be inherited (look at genetic related disease). Babies are subject to the natural conditions as any one of us and can get ill.
I do believe "in germs, genetics, disease and modern medicine in general". All I am trying to explain is the biblical view. The effect of sin is that we fell out of God’s favour and presence, and became subject to laws that govern this world which includes germs, accidents, death and so on. There is as well strong correlation between long and healthy life with living according to God’s advices.
In the clip WL Craig does not say that homosexuality is a disease but is devastating like a disease. He explores “what if it was a disease”. It is psychiatric conditions: it was on the list of psychiatric disorders for a long time. There are cases of successful treatments and reinstatement to heterosexuality – I personally have met two such men that have changed.

Ah you ascribe to the view that it is reasonable behaviour for a merciful god to curse the children for the sins of the parents. If that is your religion, you can stick it up your trinity.
Germs, disease and illness predate christianity, it predates religion, it predates humanity, it probably predates mammals.

If you treat compassion as an illness and medicate it like it was a psychiatric disorder, you can change people. Does a successful elimination of that compassion mean that we were right to treat it like that? Or is it just a way a forcing change on someone, voluntarily or otherwise?
If you are representing your religion, you are doing a good job of making it look like evil.

Fallible · **#12** by **Fallible** » Sep 19, 2012 1:03 pm

Oh my god, this is disgusting.

babel · **#13** by **babel** » Sep 19, 2012 1:07 pm

What the fuck? IS this bash-a-gay day?

CookieJon · **#14** by **CookieJon** » Sep 19, 2012 1:10 pm

swiatlo wrote:Effect of a sin is/can be inherited (look at genetic related disease).

If we look at genetic-related diseases, we can see how their effects are inherited by looking at the genes (surprisingly!) and chromosomes that cause them to be inherited through the reproductive process.

What is the mechanism that you suggest causes the effects of sins to be inherited?

Kazaman · **#15** by **Kazaman** » Sep 19, 2012 1:11 pm

Fallible wrote:Oh my god, this is disgusting.

Isn't it? Not sure which takes the cake though ... babies inherit symptoms of sin or gay people can change if they try :yuk:

Fallible · **#16** by **Fallible** » Sep 19, 2012 1:12 pm

I was under no illusion about the kind of things that people believe, but I guess it's been a while, and a part of me is truly dumbfounded that someone would espouse such views here without shame or remorse.

CookieJon · **#17** by **CookieJon** » Sep 19, 2012 1:15 pm

swiatlo wrote:There are cases of successful treatments and reinstatement to heterosexuality – I personally have met two such men that have changed.

No, you haven't. Well, not in the way you think.

I've met lots of people who've been cured of religion, though.

Scar · **#18** by **Scar** » Sep 19, 2012 1:20 pm

swiatlo wrote:
trubble76 wrote:What about babies that get ill? What sins did they commit?
When you get ill, do you use medicine?

Babies commit no sin yet. Effect of a sin is/can be inherited (look at genetic related disease). Babies are subject to the natural conditions as any one of us and can get ill.
I do believe "in germs, genetics, disease and modern medicine in general". All I am trying to explain is the biblical view. The effect of sin is that we fell out of God’s favour and presence, and became subject to laws that govern this world which includes germs, accidents, death and so on. There is as well strong correlation between long and healthy life with living according to God’s advices.
In the clip WL Craig does not say that homosexuality is a disease but is devastating like a disease. He explores “what if it was a disease”. It is psychiatric conditions: it was on the list of psychiatric disorders for a long time. There are cases of successful treatments and reinstatement to heterosexuality – I personally have met two such men that have changed.

What a bunch of long debunked nonsense and lies.

Fenrir · **#19** by **Fenrir** » Sep 19, 2012 1:26 pm

Reinstatement- what a way to abuse a perfectly good word in the name of bullshit. The word reinstatement in this instance is poisoning the well with the assertion that these people were all fine and dandy till they got sick and now they have been returned to health. Plain and simple bullshit.

The barrel really is bottomless isn't it?

Mike_L · **#20** by **Mike_L** » Sep 19, 2012 1:37 pm

swiatlo wrote:Babies commit no sin yet.

Boo!

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