Why should Hawking or Curie get a free pass in Heaven?

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Why should Hawking or Curie get a free pass in Heaven?

#1  Postby ispoketoanangel » Aug 29, 2010 2:34 pm

In another thread, a commentator posted the following list of scientists:

Stephen Hawking, world famous physicist.
Steven Weinberg, world famous physicist.
Carl Sagan, world famous astronomer, and 1978 Pulitzer Prize winner.
Daniel Dennett, internationally renowned philosopher, cognitive scientist and evolutionary biologist.
Marie Curie, twice winner of the Nobel Prize, one for Physics (1903), one for Chemistry (1911).
Isaac Asimov, the world famous author and biochemist.
Noam Chomsky, considered one of America's leading intellectuals, professor of linguistics, who invented the theory of generative grammar.
Francis Crick, the biologist who co-discovered the structure of DNA with James Watson, and who won the 1962 Nobel Prize for Physiology or Medicine.
James Watson, just mentioned, another eminent biologist, who shared the 1962 Nobel Prize for Physiology or Medicine with Francis Crick for the elucidation of the structure of DNA.
Thomas Edison, world famous inventor.
Stephen Jay Gould, internationally renowned evolutionary biologist and palaeontologist, who devised the theory of punctuated equilibria.
Massimo Puglicci, professor of biology at the State University of New York, Stony Brook, who has three Ph..Ds.
Steven Pinker, professor of psychology, director of neuroscience at MIT, listed as one of Time magazine's top 100 influential people in the modern era.
Karl Popper, the philosopher of science who wrote Conjectures and Refutations, The Poverty of Historicism and The Open Society and its Enemies among many seminal works of the 20th century, and who established the principle of falsifiability in science.
Michael Shermer, experimental psychologist and historian of science, who writes for Scientific American and is considered America's leading sceptic intellectual.
E. O. Wilson, the eminent evolutionary biologist, winner of two Pulitzer Prizes and the Crafoord Prize, and was named in his lifetime as one of America's top 25 most influential people.
And of course, Richard Dawkins, whose status as a biologist enjoyed a meteoric rise upon the publication of The Selfish Gene, and who has twice been voted the number one British intellectual, receiving twice as many votes as the runner-up.


If God exists, and if God's purpose by creating the world is to have a personal relationship with His creation, then what relevance are the scientific achivement of the people above? If the Holy Spirit entered their heart and those people chased the Holy Spirit away in their wickedness, then they deserve to be judged equally as a janitor or your grandmother.

If the Bible speaks the truth, then the wicked will be raised from the dead and throughout eternity exist in the state of conscious, unutterable, endless torment of anguish. Don't count on your scientific achivements to get a free pass to Heaven, people.
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Re: Why should Hawking or Curie get a free pass in Heaven?

#2  Postby campermon » Aug 29, 2010 2:37 pm

:coffee:
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Re: Why should Hawking or Curie get a free pass in Heaven?

#3  Postby mmmcheezy » Aug 29, 2010 2:37 pm

:rofl:
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Re: Why should Hawking or Curie get a free pass in Heaven?

#4  Postby XiledSpawn » Aug 29, 2010 2:39 pm

What did you say about my grandmother!

:lol:
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Re: Why should Hawking or Curie get a free pass in Heaven?

#5  Postby Crocodile Gandhi » Aug 29, 2010 2:42 pm

ispoketoanangel wrote: If the Bible speaks the truth, then the wicked will be raised from the dead and throughout eternity exist in the state of conscious, unutterable, endless torment of anguish. Don't count on your scientific achivements to get a free pass to Heaven, people.


If the voices in my head really are aliens, then the molecular spaceship of unending togetherness will raise my mortal coil from this horrible planet.

If the supreme mugwump truly does exist, then I fear for the lives of those Hollywood elite.

If David Icke was right all along, then we should blot out the sun and kill those cold-blooded overlords.
If I believe in heaven I deny myself a death. Dying keeps me conscious of the way I waste my breath - Cosmo Jarvis
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Re: Why should Hawking or Curie get a free pass in Heaven?

#6  Postby Millefleur » Aug 29, 2010 2:44 pm

:scratch:


:what:


:lol:


:crazy:
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Re: Why should Hawking or Curie get a free pass in Heaven?

#7  Postby Crocodile Gandhi » Aug 29, 2010 2:45 pm

Why should logic and reason get in the way of not presenting anything that confirms the many qualifiers necessary to validate my arguments?
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Re: Why should Hawking or Curie get a free pass in Heaven?

#8  Postby Denny » Aug 29, 2010 2:49 pm

This is why I became an Anti-Theist.

:picard:
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Re: Why should Hawking or Curie get a free pass in Heaven?

#9  Postby Weaver » Aug 29, 2010 3:03 pm

ispoketoanangel wrote:In another thread, a commentator posted the following list of scientists:

snip list of famous people apparently related to some topic or other


If God exists, and if God's purpose by creating the world is to have a personal relationship with His creation, then what relevance are the scientific achivement of the people above? If the Holy Spirit entered their heart and those people chased the Holy Spirit away in their wickedness, then they deserve to be judged equally as a janitor or your grandmother.

If the Bible speaks the truth, then the wicked will be raised from the dead and throughout eternity exist in the state of conscious, unutterable, endless torment of anguish. Don't count on your scientific achivements to get a free pass to Heaven, people.

Um - I think you miss the whole point. The atheists among us (myself included) don't "count on (our) scientific achievements to get a free pass to Heaven" - we have seen absolutely no evidence that the (probably) Judeo-Christian version of heaven exists - just as we have seen no evidence that Valhalla or any of the other after-death myths exist in reality.

So we're not counting on anything - I state that there is no heaven, according to current evidence, and I am completely unworried about getting in, whether on a free pass or because I've lived a decent life under a malicious deity who absolutely refuses to give evidence supporting her follower's assertions.
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Re: Why should Hawking or Curie get a free pass in Heaven?

#10  Postby ispoketoanangel » Aug 29, 2010 3:04 pm

Denny wrote:This is why I became an Anti-Theist.

:picard:


Instead of expressing your hatred for theists, why don't you tell us why should the people on the above list be treated differently by God than the people who have no scientific achivement?
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Re: Why should Hawking or Curie get a free pass in Heaven?

#11  Postby Sciwoman » Aug 29, 2010 3:04 pm

Weaver wrote:
ispoketoanangel wrote:In another thread, a commentator posted the following list of scientists:

snip list of famous people apparently related to some topic or other


If God exists, and if God's purpose by creating the world is to have a personal relationship with His creation, then what relevance are the scientific achivement of the people above? If the Holy Spirit entered their heart and those people chased the Holy Spirit away in their wickedness, then they deserve to be judged equally as a janitor or your grandmother.

If the Bible speaks the truth, then the wicked will be raised from the dead and throughout eternity exist in the state of conscious, unutterable, endless torment of anguish. Don't count on your scientific achivements to get a free pass to Heaven, people.

Um - I think you miss the whole point. The atheists among us (myself included) don't "count on (our) scientific achievements to get a free pass to Heaven" - we have seen absolutely no evidence that the (probably) Judeo-Christian version of heaven exists - just as we have seen no evidence that Valhalla or any of the other after-death myths exist in reality.

So we're not counting on anything - I state that there is no heaven, according to current evidence, and I am completely unworried about getting in, whether on a free pass or because I've lived a decent life under a malicious deity who absolutely refuses to give evidence supporting her follower's assertions.

:this:

I was about to post something similar, but Weaver beat me to it - and said it much better than I could.
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Re: Why should Hawking or Curie get a free pass in Heaven?

#12  Postby Arcanyn » Aug 29, 2010 3:11 pm

If Jeffrey Dahmer exists, and considers that certain people exist solely to serve as his unquestioningly obedient sex slaves, then of what relevance are their achievements or personal traits? If Jeffrey Dahmer approached them and they rejected his advances, they deserve to have holes drilled in their heads and filled with hydrochloric acid, regardless of whether they be a rent boy or a Nobel Prize winner.

If serial killers are out there, those who irritate them will suffer gruesome deaths. Don't expect your scientific achievements, or your predilictions towards donating to charity and helping old ladies cross the road to give you an exemption to being brutally murdered by sadistic killers, people.
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Re: Why should Hawking or Curie get a free pass in Heaven?

#13  Postby twistor59 » Aug 29, 2010 3:16 pm

Weaver wrote:
Um - I think you miss the whole point. The atheists among us (myself included) don't "count on (our) scientific achievements to get a free pass to Heaven" - we have seen absolutely no evidence that the (probably) Judeo-Christian version of heaven exists - just as we have seen no evidence that Valhalla or any of the other after-death myths exist in reality.


Speak for yourself pal - the only reason I worked my ass off for 6 years at university was to get the basic - I repeat - basic, qualifications for entry into heaven. There's a heaven of a lot of competition for places these days, so it's top qualifications or nothing.
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Re: Why should Hawking or Curie get a free pass in Heaven?

#14  Postby Crocodile Gandhi » Aug 29, 2010 3:17 pm

ispoketoanangel wrote:
Denny wrote:This is why I became an Anti-Theist.

:picard:


Instead of expressing your hatred for theists, why don't you tell us why should the people on the above list be treated differently by God than the people who have no scientific achivement?


You seem to be consistently missing a very important step. Let me illustrate this step with the following question: Instead of expressing your hatred for theists, why don't you tell us why should the people on the above list be treated differently by Blibbity Blop than the people who have no scientific achivement?
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Re: Why should Hawking or Curie get a free pass in Heaven?

#15  Postby rJD » Aug 29, 2010 3:19 pm

ispoketoanangel wrote:
Denny wrote:This is why I became an Anti-Theist.

:picard:


Instead of expressing your hatred for theists, why don't you tell us why should the people on the above list be treated differently by God than the people who have no scientific achivement?

Anti-theism is not hatred of theists (although some are pretty vile) but of theism - 1st error.

The list of achievers isn't a claim that these people deserve to get into (a non-existent) heaven but is a contrast between the actual achievement of real material improvements to the world by atheists & agnostics with your wibble about theists pleasing god by the idiotic measure of "sucking up" to a creator you merely assume & assert to exist - 2nd error.

Since you have abandoned your previous thread, which has long since killed Craig's Kalam wibble & is now picking over the bones of its corpse, may we take it you've given up on that line & now are going to keep opening new threads as each previous one is trashed?
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Re: Why should Hawking or Curie get a free pass in Heaven?

#16  Postby tytalus » Aug 29, 2010 3:20 pm

Yeah, basically what Weaver said. The believers can get around to demonstrating their nonsense beliefs anytime now -- and the idea that a god-concept of such benevolence would have any tests in the way poses a problem for them, not the skeptic.
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Re: Why should Hawking or Curie get a free pass in Heaven?

#17  Postby ispoketoanangel » Aug 29, 2010 3:26 pm

rJD wrote:The list of achievers isn't a claim that these people deserve to get into (a non-existent) heaven but is a contrast between the actual achievement of real material improvements to the world by atheists & agnostics with your wobble about theists pleasing god by the idiotic measure of "sucking up" to a creator you merely assume & assert to exist - 2nd error.


But what is the relevance of people's achivement in that discussion? I said that atheists in their (censored) freely reject the holy spirit. Then Cali came up with that list, as if it's supposed to prove something? If they are brilliant scientists then it means it's impossible for them to reject the holy spirit?
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Re: Why should Hawking or Curie get a free pass in Heaven?

#18  Postby Crocodile Gandhi » Aug 29, 2010 3:31 pm

ispoketoanangel wrote:
rJD wrote:The list of achievers isn't a claim that these people deserve to get into (a non-existent) heaven but is a contrast between the actual achievement of real material improvements to the world by atheists & agnostics with your wobble about theists pleasing god by the idiotic measure of "sucking up" to a creator you merely assume & assert to exist - 2nd error.


But what is the relevance of people's achivement in that discussion? I said that atheists in their (censored) freely reject the holy spirit. Then Cali came up with that list, as if it's supposed to prove something? If they are brilliant scientists then it means it's impossible for them to reject the holy spirit?


Considerig that the Holy Spirit conceals itself to the point of being indistinguishable from that which is non-existent, then I suppose it makes a lot of sense that these brilliant scientists reject it. Unless, of course, you can provide evidence for the Holy Spirit? Got any of that?
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Re: Why should Hawking or Curie get a free pass in Heaven?

#19  Postby Atheist PhD » Aug 29, 2010 3:34 pm

ispoketoanangel wrote:
Denny wrote:This is why I became an Anti-Theist.

:picard:


Instead of expressing your hatred for theists, why don't you tell us why should the people on the above list be treated differently by God than the people who have no scientific achivement?


Oh, I assure you they will NOT be treated any differently by god than anyone else, primarily because GOD does not exist. Having a bit of trouble with understanding that little point being made by atheists are you??? :think:
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Re: Why should Hawking or Curie get a free pass in Heaven?

#20  Postby Vosje » Aug 29, 2010 3:47 pm

What a god thinks about these people is utterly irrelevant. What we think is and what they have done for us is. If heaven were to exist as a democracy, a democratic realm rather than an empire or absolutist kingdom, then they just might get their ticket. Scientists serve men, not gods.
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