John Platko wrote:archibald wrote:John Platko wrote:What exactly do you mean by consciousness being an illusion? Why that choice of word?
So, it seems wrong to say that consciousness is an illusion, because it seems indisputable that we experience a sensation we call consciousness.
But, what may warrant the term illusion is the idea that consciousness is not what it seems to be, that it doesn't do what we think it does. This is consciousness as epiphenomenon. I'm not saying it necessarily is, but I tend to think it might be, to at least an extent (in that it may not 'do' as much as we think it does, even if it's not fully an epiphenomenon).
Perhaps Peter Tse will give you some ideas about how to think of these things:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OJSbwP-GnY&t=966s
I watched quite a bit of that.
Gosh, I think it's confused. I'm not sure what type of free will he is saying we have but my guess is it's a version of compatibilism. Which is a sort of free will that is compatible with determinism which is why I call it pseudo.
But anyway. We can agree to disagree about terms and I don't have too many objections to listening to people talk about free will so long as I know which sort they mean. Moving on..
He talks about human ability to imagine and deliberate and then he says other animals such as lions stalking prey, have the same capacity. Eeek that's controversial.
On the plus side, he elucidated the different versions of free will quite nicely, I thought, and it's the first time I've really considered a third type (to compatibilism and libertarian) which is essentially a second type of libertarian. He calls it metalibertarian. So that was interesting.
The part I was most interested in though was when he felt he'd debunked the idea (via Libet) about the role of readiness potential (RP) in decision-making. This started at 17:40 in the video. Oddly, when he described the experiments he did which he thought debunked Libet, I ended up thinking the results suggested the opposite! Lol.
So he hypnotised subjects (to tell them that when they saw a certain image on a screen they would move a certain finger) so that after they came out of hypnosis and took part in a Libet-style experiment, and the triggering image appeared, they did indeed move their finger (or let's say it moved) but could not explain it, that is to say had no reason available to their conscious as to why it happened. But, he says, the readiness potential was still there (and he accepts that unconscious readiness potentials prior to action are a real phenomenon and one which is a precursor to action) and his conclusion is that RP's were irrelevant.
So, I'm asking... why was there an RP? He's associating it with being prior to the action and triggered by the hypnotical suggestion, so he personally is not saying that it's unrelated or coincidental. So, I'm thinking, it appeared after the image was shown but before (indeed in this case entirely without) any conscious awareness of intent.
Doesn't that support the idea that decisions are unconscious rather than conscious? Am I missing something?