Fallible wrote:Well, whenever you have the time to provide an argument to back up those comments, I'll give it a read.

I think I already made them.

It was nice talking to you.

natselrox,

Some drugs have caused the depressed person to become more depressed which then had them committing suicide within a week or two of the taking of the drug. Of course there are law suits out now and supposedly warnings that that drug may cause you to be suicidal. And like all of us are saying, once you get in that stage, the warning may not work.

Many of the people who do get help with depression but not a cure, are people who attempted suicide. And it doesn't always work, there is repetition.

Finally it is reading or hearing comments such as pick yourself up, take a pill, and yada yada about depression that keeps some people also from looking for help. Thankfully there are the rest of us on this thread who offer a more compassionate understanding.

A study of over one million men shows a link between IQ scores and attempted suicide.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/podca ... u-10-06-05

*ahem*

natselrox wrote:Suicide- If you're dumb enough to do it, you deserved it.

That is one of the most unequivocally horrible things which one could say on the subject. It is especially so due to the fact that there is a strong likelihood of there being suicidal members on these forums, given the statistics concerning the issue. You might as well spray paint it on the wall of a crowded mall. The last thing which a suicidal person needs to hear is that they are being stupid and deserve to die.

Kazaman wrote:

natselrox wrote:Suicide- If you're dumb enough to do it, you deserved it.

That is one of the most unequivocally horrible things which one could say on the subject. It is especially so due to the fact that there is a strong likelihood of there being suicidal members on these forums, given the statistics concerning the issue. You might as well spray paint it on the wall of a crowded mall. The last thing which a suicidal person needs to hear is that they are being stupid and deserve to die.

Yeah... yeah...

If only I had so much control over others' minds...

natselrox wrote:

Kazaman wrote:

natselrox wrote:Suicide- If you're dumb enough to do it, you deserved it.

That is one of the most unequivocally horrible things which one could say on the subject. It is especially so due to the fact that there is a strong likelihood of there being suicidal members on these forums, given the statistics concerning the issue. You might as well spray paint it on the wall of a crowded mall. The last thing which a suicidal person needs to hear is that they are being stupid and deserve to die.

Yeah... yeah...

If only I had so much control over others' minds...

Well, until then ...

Kazaman wrote:

natselrox wrote:

Kazaman wrote:

natselrox wrote:Suicide- If you're dumb enough to do it, you deserved it.

That is one of the most unequivocally horrible things which one could say on the subject. It is especially so due to the fact that there is a strong likelihood of there being suicidal members on these forums, given the statistics concerning the issue. You might as well spray paint it on the wall of a crowded mall. The last thing which a suicidal person needs to hear is that they are being stupid and deserve to die.

Yeah... yeah...

If only I had so much control over others' minds...

Well, until then ...

Die, suicidal person, die.

Did I just commit murder?

natselrox wrote:

Kazaman wrote:

natselrox wrote:

Kazaman wrote:

natselrox wrote:Suicide- If you're dumb enough to do it, you deserved it.

That is one of the most unequivocally horrible things which one could say on the subject. It is especially so due to the fact that there is a strong likelihood of there being suicidal members on these forums, given the statistics concerning the issue. You might as well spray paint it on the wall of a crowded mall. The last thing which a suicidal person needs to hear is that they are being stupid and deserve to die.

Yeah... yeah...

If only I had so much control over others' minds...

Well, until then ...

Die, suicidal person, die.

Did I just commit murder?

Nope.

Kazaman wrote:

natselrox wrote:

Kazaman wrote:

natselrox wrote:Suicide- If you're dumb enough to do it, you deserved it.

That is one of the most unequivocally horrible things which one could say on the subject. It is especially so due to the fact that there is a strong likelihood of there being suicidal members on these forums, given the statistics concerning the issue. You might as well spray paint it on the wall of a crowded mall. The last thing which a suicidal person needs to hear is that they are being stupid and deserve to die.

Yeah... yeah...

If only I had so much control over others' minds...

Well, until then ...

Why do you care what they think? If they deny the existence of states of experience that can cause people to choose non-existence over existence it's they're choice, and no amount ratiocination will lead them from such a choice. It really is something that is subjective and must therefore be experienced.

Jeffersonian-marxist wrote:

Kazaman wrote:

natselrox wrote:

Kazaman wrote:

natselrox wrote:Suicide- If you're dumb enough to do it, you deserved it.

That is one of the most unequivocally horrible things which one could say on the subject. It is especially so due to the fact that there is a strong likelihood of there being suicidal members on these forums, given the statistics concerning the issue. You might as well spray paint it on the wall of a crowded mall. The last thing which a suicidal person needs to hear is that they are being stupid and deserve to die.

Yeah... yeah...

If only I had so much control over others' minds...

Well, until then ...

Why do you care what they think? If they deny the existence of states of experience that can cause people to choose non-existence over existence it's they're choice, and no amount ratiocination will lead them from such a choice. It really is something that is subjective and must therefore be experienced.

You're assuming that I have never experienced it, that I do not have close friends who have experienced it and that I am merely going on intuition.

The_Metatron wrote:A permanent solution to a temporary problem.

This is the way I see it. One is assured of dying some day. What's the rush?

Kazaman wrote:You're assuming that I have never experienced it, that I do not have close friends who have experienced it and that I am merely going on intuition.

No, I am assuming that they have never experienced such emotions.

Jeffersonian-marxist wrote:

Kazaman wrote:You're assuming that I have never experienced it, that I do not have close friends who have experienced it and that I am merely going on intuition.

No, I am assuming that they have never experienced such emotions.

Exactly: "You're assuming that I have never experienced it ..."

I think Jeffersonian-marxist was referring to people who don't get why people choose to kill themselves - not you. S/he's asking why you should care if that's their view.

Personally I don't think it's about why one should care. I care that there are those who think people who commit suicide are simply stupid because I feel it's inaccurate, and I replied in this thread because I wanted to make that point.

Fallible wrote:I care that there are those who think people who commit suicide are simply stupid because I feel it's inaccurate, and I replied in this thread because I wanted to make that point.

But peer-reviewed articles seem to agree.

natselrox wrote:A study of over one million men shows a link between IQ scores and attempted suicide.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/podca ... u-10-06-05

*ahem*

natselrox wrote:Suicide- If you're dumb enough to do it, you deserved it.

...and fuck the people with mental illnesses, right?

Sick.

NineOneFour wrote:

natselrox wrote:Suicide- If you're dumb enough to do it, you deserved it.

...and fuck the people with mental illnesses, right?

Not really. Treat them. Make them understand. If possible, tie them up, but don't let them kill themselves.

natselrox wrote:

Fallible wrote:Unfortunately, a large proportion of depression has absolutely nothing to do with life events, so your rich man could be more severely depressed than your African girl.

Prozac seems to be wiser than Suicide in that case.

Dumb. My point stands.

Your point is callous, uninformed, callow, lacking empathy and compassion, and particularly annoying in the extreme.

!	MODNOTE Reports about this post have been dealt with.

natselrox wrote:

Fallible wrote:How does it stand? I haven't seen an argument explaining why suicide is dumb.

You are about to.

Depression is an illness.

With a cure.

Wrong.

Shows precisely how much you know about this: zero.

Typical loudmouth with few facts.

As such, it has many symptoms, one of which is suicidal ideation. Sometimes, people act on this. Sometimes, depression has organic causes and no circumstantial or life-event causes at all.

Tangible causes which can be removed.

Wrong. A lot of depression doesn't have any tangible causes and it is very difficult to diagnose and treat.

This is why people with ostensibly everything going for them can still be depressed. I take it that you would not call a rabid person's hydrophobia and the actions attributable to this symptom dumb, because hydrophobia is a symptom of the illness rabies, and you understand that someone with rabies cannot control their reaction to water. Why then do you call a symptom of another illness and the actions attributable to this symptom dumb?

And you must be feeling proud coming up with this 'hydrophobia analogy'?

A hydrophobic person is not dumb. One avoiding the rabies immune globulin injection is a fucking moron.

A suicidal person is not necessarily dumb. They are suffering from a mental illness, likely.

Would you call a person with post traumatic stress syndrome "dumb"? Would you call a person who is schizophrenic "dumb"?

No.

Shows the lack of maturity in a certain segment of the population as well as the continuing prejudice against those with mental illnesses, who are usually termed "dumb", "crazy", "lazy" and the like by people who have no fucking clue at all.

As for Prozac, many people with depression never contact a doctor - often it creeps up on people and before they know it, they are deep in their illness and don't realise the extent to which it is affecting their lives and thought processes. Still others are aware of the stigma which is still attached to depression and tell themselves that they just need to pull themselves together, rather than 'admit' that they have it. Medication is only an option for people who recognise what is happening to them and take action.

All these don't make them smart.

They don't make them dumb, either.

natselrox wrote:

Kazaman wrote:

natselrox wrote:

Kazaman wrote:

natselrox wrote:Suicide- If you're dumb enough to do it, you deserved it.

That is one of the most unequivocally horrible things which one could say on the subject. It is especially so due to the fact that there is a strong likelihood of there being suicidal members on these forums, given the statistics concerning the issue. You might as well spray paint it on the wall of a crowded mall. The last thing which a suicidal person needs to hear is that they are being stupid and deserve to die.

Yeah... yeah...

If only I had so much control over others' minds...

Well, until then ...

Die, suicidal person, die.

Did I just commit murder?

No, but you just got your ass reported for trolling.