Why this scientist believes in GOD

Confusing science with answering why questions

Christianity, Islam, Other Religions & Belief Systems.

Moderators: kiore, Blip, The_Metatron

Re: Why this scientist believes in GOD

#21  Postby Rumraket » Apr 23, 2014 12:20 pm

Mick wrote:
Rumraket wrote:
Mick wrote:
Rumraket wrote:
No, that's what experience has taught me.


Oh, so there's an argument behind this? Well, let's hear it.

"They'll be on my blog some time in the future".


I'm actually almost finished it. :)

Congratulations, but it doesn't really matter. There's no need for me to produce an argument, I'm simply telling you what my experience has been. I've never heard a theistic "moral argument" that didn't in the end reduce to an appeal to emotional revulsion at some kind of moral dilemma that would purportedly not be deductively solvable.

That's what they all reduce to, you wouldn't have an ultimate solution to X - therefore people would be allowed to rape babies and murder each other and that would be terrible. Oooh, aaaahh! Better praise the lord then.
Half-Life 3 - I want to believe
User avatar
Rumraket
 
Posts: 13264
Age: 43

Print view this post

Re: Why this scientist believes in GOD

#22  Postby Mick » Apr 23, 2014 12:33 pm

Why is my nose running?

It is either a why-question or not? Which is it?
Christ said, "I am the Truth"; he did not say "I am the custom." -- St. Toribio
User avatar
Mick
Banned Troll
 
Posts: 7027

Print view this post

Re: Why this scientist believes in GOD

#23  Postby Rumraket » Apr 23, 2014 12:40 pm

Mick wrote:Why is my nose running?

It is either a why-question or not? Which is it?

And there is either an answer or there is not(in the sense you mean why), but you can't know it either way. So stop worrying about it and ejoy your life.
Half-Life 3 - I want to believe
User avatar
Rumraket
 
Posts: 13264
Age: 43

Print view this post

Re: Why this scientist believes in GOD

#24  Postby Mick » Apr 23, 2014 12:42 pm

You're not answering my question.
Christ said, "I am the Truth"; he did not say "I am the custom." -- St. Toribio
User avatar
Mick
Banned Troll
 
Posts: 7027

Print view this post

Re: Why this scientist believes in GOD

#25  Postby Rumraket » Apr 23, 2014 12:46 pm

Mick wrote:You're not answering my question.

Yes I am and it was easy. You even answered it yourself. I'll give you a small hint: The first word in the question is... ?
Half-Life 3 - I want to believe
User avatar
Rumraket
 
Posts: 13264
Age: 43

Print view this post

Re: Why this scientist believes in GOD

#26  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Apr 23, 2014 12:46 pm

Mick wrote:You're not answering my question.

Just keep ignoring the posts that exposed the flaw in your analogy.
It won't help your position.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
User avatar
Thomas Eshuis
THREAD STARTER
 
Name: Thomas Eshuis
Posts: 31091
Age: 34
Male

Country: Netherlands
European Union (eur)
Print view this post

Re: Why this scientist believes in GOD

#27  Postby Animavore » Apr 23, 2014 12:48 pm

Mick wrote:Why is my nose running?

It is either a why-question or not? Which is it?


Shall I start a thread about the why/how question distinction for you?
A most evolved electron.
User avatar
Animavore
 
Name: The Scribbler
Posts: 45108
Age: 45
Male

Ireland (ie)
Print view this post

Re: Why this scientist believes in GOD

#28  Postby Mick » Apr 23, 2014 5:21 pm

Animavore wrote:
Mick wrote:Why is my nose running?

It is either a why-question or not? Which is it?


Shall I start a thread about the why/how question distinction for you?


Yes, please.
Christ said, "I am the Truth"; he did not say "I am the custom." -- St. Toribio
User avatar
Mick
Banned Troll
 
Posts: 7027

Print view this post

Re: Why this scientist believes in GOD

#29  Postby Mick » Apr 23, 2014 5:22 pm

Rumraket wrote:
Mick wrote:You're not answering my question.

Yes I am and it was easy. You even answered it yourself. I'll give you a small hint: The first word in the question is... ?


So, you're telling me it is a why-question? That's awesome. So can science answer it?
Christ said, "I am the Truth"; he did not say "I am the custom." -- St. Toribio
User avatar
Mick
Banned Troll
 
Posts: 7027

Print view this post

Re: Why this scientist believes in GOD

#30  Postby Rumraket » Apr 23, 2014 5:27 pm

Mick wrote:
Rumraket wrote:
Mick wrote:You're not answering my question.

Yes I am and it was easy. You even answered it yourself. I'll give you a small hint: The first word in the question is... ?


So, you're telling me it is a why-question? That's awesome.

You started asking "Why's my nose running?" - so that's a why question. Is this some great new and welcome revelation to you? :picard:

Of course you might not have meant why as in, "is there an ultimate purpose to my runny nose?", but instead have meant the question to be "what is the cause of my nose running and how does that affect me?".
Half-Life 3 - I want to believe
User avatar
Rumraket
 
Posts: 13264
Age: 43

Print view this post

Re: Why this scientist believes in GOD

#31  Postby Rumraket » Apr 23, 2014 5:29 pm

Mick wrote:
Rumraket wrote:
Mick wrote:You're not answering my question.

Yes I am and it was easy. You even answered it yourself. I'll give you a small hint: The first word in the question is... ?


So, you're telling me it is a why-question? That's awesome. So can science answer it?

I don't believe anyone can. You will have to start with some unprovable assumptions either way, so to say that you have really found out the ultimate purpose of your runny nose would be bullshit.

Which is why I said you should stop bothering yourself about those kinds of why-questions, they're unanswerable. Go enjoy your life with something more fulfilling and/or productive.
Half-Life 3 - I want to believe
User avatar
Rumraket
 
Posts: 13264
Age: 43

Print view this post

Re: Why this scientist believes in GOD

#32  Postby Mick » Apr 23, 2014 5:32 pm

Rumraket wrote:
Mick wrote:
Rumraket wrote:
Mick wrote:You're not answering my question.

Yes I am and it was easy. You even answered it yourself. I'll give you a small hint: The first word in the question is... ?


So, you're telling me it is a why-question? That's awesome.

You started asking "Why's my nose running?" - so that's a why question. Is this some great new and welcome revelation to you? :picard:

Of course you might not have meant why as in, "is there an ultimate purpose to my runny nose?", but instead have meant the question to be "what is the cause of my nose running and how does that affect me?".


Well, it is just that if it is a why-question, and if science can answer, then why-questions need not be somehow not answerable by science, contrary to the proposition i teased earlier.
Christ said, "I am the Truth"; he did not say "I am the custom." -- St. Toribio
User avatar
Mick
Banned Troll
 
Posts: 7027

Print view this post

Re: Why this scientist believes in GOD

#33  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Apr 24, 2014 7:19 am

Do you really think you're convincing anyone with these pathetic semantic games Mick?
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
User avatar
Thomas Eshuis
THREAD STARTER
 
Name: Thomas Eshuis
Posts: 31091
Age: 34
Male

Country: Netherlands
European Union (eur)
Print view this post

Re: Why this scientist believes in GOD

#34  Postby Calilasseia » Apr 24, 2014 10:30 am

Mick wrote:
Calilasseia wrote:
Mick wrote:"Confusing science with answering why questions"

Patient: Why is my nose running?
Doctor: Sorry, science doesn't answer that question!

Lol


Got something other than infantile caricature to offer here, Mick?

Because even without professional medical knowledge, I can answer this one.

Patient: "Why is my noise running?"

Me: "The coronaviruses that generated your cold symptoms, resulted in the death of some of your epithelial cells in the mucous membranes of your nose, and the resulting immune response to non-programmed cell death stimulated the remaining epithelial cells (in particular the Bowman's glands in the nasal mucosae) to secrete copious quantities of mucins and IgA, the latter compound itself being an immunoglobulin helping to protect the mucosae against further pathogenic attack. Your runny nose is the visible sign of this increased secretion."


you missed the point.


No I didn't. Because, in your eagerness to post yet another infantile caricature and congratulate yourself for doing so, you made the classic mistake of erecting an example where "why?" is synonymous with "what is the underlying mechanism?" Which renders "why?" as in "what imaginary magic entity decreed this and for what reasons?" superfluous to requirements and irrelevant, as said question is increasingly being rendered.

Mick wrote:If science can't answer the why questions


Which presumes in advance that those questions actually possess substantive meaning.

Mick wrote:then it can't answer my question, the one about the runny nose.


Except that your apologetic conflation of two different semantic frameworks, both applied to the word "why", failed precisely because those semantic frameworks being conflated in your apologetics are fundamentally different.

Mick wrote:But of course it can, to some degree or other.


Oh wait, that's precisely what I did above - provide a substantive answer to an observed phenomenon. Something that pedlars of apologetics continue to fail to do, every time they try and claim that their pet magic entities were responsible. Once again, I'm still waiting to see a supernaturalist answer that awkward question I keep inferring whenever I contrast the success of science with the abject failure of mythology. Namely, if the authors of mythology were purportedly handed the keys to the cosmos, in a manner purportedly denied to scientists, then how come those authors were incapable of even fantasising about entities and phenomena, that those same, purportedly "handicapped" scientists, not only alighted upon, and provided reliable evidence for, but also placed within precise, usefully predictive quantitative frameworks, in accord with observation to 15 decimal places, of a sort that the authors of mythology manifestly failed to provide, and showed no signs of ever being able to provide? If these people were supposedly given "privileged" information by an invisible magic man, how come a whole group of other people, purportedly denied this blessing, achieved spectacular success of a sort manifestly never even remotely approached by the purportedly "privileged" recipients of purportedly "divine" information?
Signature temporarily on hold until I can find a reliable image host ...
User avatar
Calilasseia
RS Donator
 
Posts: 22634
Age: 62
Male

Country: England
United Kingdom (uk)
Print view this post

Re: Why this scientist believes in GOD

#35  Postby Animavore » Apr 24, 2014 11:56 am

Mick wrote:
Animavore wrote:
Mick wrote:Why is my nose running?

It is either a why-question or not? Which is it?


Shall I start a thread about the why/how question distinction for you?


Yes, please.

Well I'm not sure there's much need to. I brought up the same argument last year and got schooled on it.

From here.
A most evolved electron.
User avatar
Animavore
 
Name: The Scribbler
Posts: 45108
Age: 45
Male

Ireland (ie)
Print view this post

Re: Why this scientist believes in GOD

#36  Postby ElDiablo » Apr 25, 2014 3:32 am

I don't know anything about Collins except what's in that video and I see nothing wrong with his personal revelation. If that's what he believes, so what. if he's good at what he does that's what counts.
God is silly putty.
User avatar
ElDiablo
 
Posts: 3128

Country: USA
United States (us)
Print view this post

Re: Why this scientist believes in GOD

#37  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Apr 25, 2014 7:49 am

I've nothing against Collins being a Christian. Just disappointed that this is presented as evidence for Christianity, that a scientist converted to it.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
User avatar
Thomas Eshuis
THREAD STARTER
 
Name: Thomas Eshuis
Posts: 31091
Age: 34
Male

Country: Netherlands
European Union (eur)
Print view this post

Re: Why this scientist believes in GOD

#38  Postby Scar » Apr 25, 2014 8:19 am

Mick wrote:Why is my nose running?

It is either a why-question or not? Which is it?


I'm sure a great philosopher such as you can figure this most important question out, right?
Image
User avatar
Scar
 
Name: Michael
Posts: 3967
Age: 37
Male

Country: Germany
Germany (de)
Print view this post

Re: Why this scientist believes in GOD

#39  Postby DarthHelmet86 » Apr 25, 2014 8:23 am

Thomas Eshuis wrote:I've nothing against Collins being a Christian. Just disappointed that this is presented as evidence for Christianity, that a scientist converted to it.


When it happens so rarely you really need to shout about it and make a big deal so people notice that it happened. Otherwise people might think it just never happens at all.
I. This is Not a Game
II. Here and Now, You are Alive
User avatar
DarthHelmet86
RS Donator
 
Posts: 10344
Age: 38
Male

Country: Australia
Australia (au)
Print view this post

Re: Why this scientist believes in GOD

#40  Postby Cito di Pense » Apr 25, 2014 9:13 am

Mick wrote:"Confusing science with answering why questions"

Patient: Why is my nose running?
Doctor: Sorry, science doesn't answer that question!

Lol


Mick wrote:Why is my nose running?


It's trying to escape from your brain and your mouth. Perhaps it's embarrassed by what you just asked. Repeatedly.
Хлопнут без некролога. -- Серге́й Па́влович Королёв

Translation by Elbert Hubbard: Do not take life too seriously. You're not going to get out of it alive.
User avatar
Cito di Pense
 
Name: Amir Bagatelle
Posts: 30789
Age: 24
Male

Country: Nutbush City Limits
Ukraine (ua)
Print view this post

PreviousNext

Return to Theism

Who is online

Users viewing this topic: No registered users and 0 guests

cron