So you are saying the IDF is training/creating a 'culture' of people more likely to be rapists

Any you see nothing wrong with saying this?

This has no more to do with the IDF than the British soldiers who were found guilty of a gang rape a few years back is anything to do with the British army.

Drunk men who can't control themselves are the only ones responsible, no one else in exactly the same way the Muslim community is not responsible for what happened in Bradford

mrjonno wrote:So you are saying the IDF is training/creating a 'culture' of people more likely to be rapists

He CLEARLY did NOT write that. What the fuck is wrong with you man?

mrjonno wrote:Any you see nothing wrong with saying this?

Even if he DID write that, which he CLEARLY DID NOT, the IDF =/= Jews, which is what you're supposedly arguing.

mrjonno wrote:This has no more to do with the IDF than the British soldiers who were found guilty of a gang rape a few years back is anything to do with the British army.

So if we were to criticize the BRITISH SOLDIERS for alleged gang rape, would you call it RACISM? Because that's exactly what you're doing.

mrjonno wrote:Drunk men who can't control themselves are the only ones responsible, no one else in exactly the same way the Muslim community is not responsible for what happened in Bradford

Gods your writing is barely legible. Perhaps this poor written ability is suggestive of why you keep misreading things written in perfectly clear English.

I'm With Stupid wrote:
What I did bring up was that the situation of being required to do military service in a conflict situation and the cultural practice of following this up with a long period of travelling, both of which are well-documented. In Israel, this culture of backpacking is intrinsically linked to their military service and it's something that a third of recruits do at the end of their service, for an average of 6 months at a time.

To get back to reality, I can corroborate this from long periods of travel in the north of India. There are particular towns well known in Israel which are practically a bucket list of places to go after IDF service. Conversations with Israelis in those places over the years opened my eyes to the abject disgrace of the way the IDF goes about tormenting young Israelis in a manner one would consider to be breaking the Geneva Conventions in the treatment of one's enemies, let alone one's own young people.

When is the Labour Party going to do something about these Jewish terrorists?

I can read without any problem, trying to wrap up bigotry in complex language doesn't make it any less bigoted.

The events that that happened in Cyprus have bugger all to do with Israel or the IDF other than it's their citizens. That is it.
Nothing to do with 'cultural practices', 'conscription', nothing to do with backpacking, nothing do with 'situations', and no 1st-year university students are no more likely to rape than anyone else.

If it has been British soldiers none of the above would have even been mentioned.

The reality is 1st world tourists went to another 1st world country and allegedly behaved badly, that's it. No further cultural analysis is required and if it hadn't been Israel any would have been brought up.

Basically, any negative generalisation about a country that is predominately Jewish is anti-semitism whether you use the word Jewish or Israeli. It would not be tolerated for any other country

mrjonno wrote:I can read without any problem, trying to wrap up bigotry in complex language doesn't make it any less bigoted.

Bigotry wrapped up in such complex language only your special comprehension powers appear able to detect it.

Either you can't read very well at all (this would seem reasonable given your terrible written ability), or you are trolling like the lowest form of troll imaginable.

To wit, when I'm With Stupid writes:

I'm With Stupid wrote:Having said that, I don't think anyone on here has argued that there's anything in Israeli culture that would lead to this kind of behaviour

You respond with

mrjonno wrote:So you are saying the IDF is training/creating a 'culture' of people more likely to be rapists

That's inexcusable - if you're not trolling, then you should apologize as it's not just antithetical to what he said, but it's also contrived to make him appear to be racist as per your argument in the absence of any evidence to support it and a statement that directly contradicts your claim.

You don't get to play this game. You want to make accusations - then support the reasoning for your accusation. When you reply to someone saying UP by declaring they're saying DOWN then either you have serious fucking comprehension issues or you deserve to be warned by the moderators.

mrjonno wrote:The events that that happened in Cyprus have bugger all to do with Israel or the IDF other than it's their citizens.

Which is all anyone here ever said. Your concerned complaint is that the thread itself is anti-Semitic even when no one has said anything about Jews at all except you, and the thread's only mentioned of Israel or the IDF is in relation to the people in the story being Israeli - the thing you declared is racist to acknowledge.

mrjonno wrote:That is it.

According to your own 'argument' on the last page, that's 'racism'.

mrjonno wrote:Nothing to do with 'cultural practices', 'conscription', nothing to do with backpacking, nothing do with 'situations', and no 1st-year university students are no more likely to rape than anyone else.

All of these are your contrivances which have nothing to do with racism, nothing to do with antisemitism, and nothing to do with the Labour party.

mrjonno wrote:If it has been British soldiers none of the above would have even been mentioned.

If they had been British soldiers, none of your ranting about racism would have been mentioned. I already provided an object example of your hypocrisy which you haven't touched with a barge pole, indicating that you're not in this for the truth value.

mrjonno wrote:The reality is 1st world tourists went to another 1st world country and allegedly behaved badly, that's it.

What's 'first world' got to do with anything?

The reality is that those young men were recruits for the IDF. That's newsworthy whether you like it or not. It would be newsworthy if they were British Army recruits, or US forces recruits, or Japanese GSDF recruits... because it is not what is expected from the recruits of a national army, and if it were true, then it would reflect sufficiently badly that most national armies would immediately terminate their service.

So again, just because you don't grasp why something's important or relevant, that does not give you carte blanche to start nonsensically accusing everyone of racism.

mrjonno wrote: No further cultural analysis is required and if it hadn't been Israel any would have been brought up.

An assertion pulled out of the soggy orifice apparently stacked with such inanities.

mrjonno wrote:Basically, any negative generalisation about a country that is predominately Jewish is anti-semitism...

Again, your writing is a window onto your mind, and the view is foggy to say the least.

A country that is predominantly Jewish... well, that means Israel and only Israel.

Of course, Israel isn't completely Jewish - it's about 70% Jews, with a substantial portion of them not being religious, and another substantial portion being mixed with hundreds of years of other gene pools.

Obviously, zero negative generalizations have actually been made in this thread other than the imaginary one you keep referring to but cannot provide a single example of.

However, it is of course perfectly plausible to make a negative generalization about any county, Israel too, without it being racist - for it to be racist, the negative generalization would need to be about race, not say, weather, or food, or sports' success.

Is any negative generalization about the UK racism? No, of course not, even negative generalizations about the British people aren't automatically racist: if someone says that British people are terrible at dancing, that would be more of an amusing jibe, if they said British people have poor culinary taste, that might be a little unfair today but would be a historically adequate stereotype that falls far short of racism, if they said that British football teams' supporters are prone to violence then that would be an indictment on British football teams, not on the Anglo-Saxon populace of the entire country.

You're reaching hard... yet it all remains transparently motivated reasoning. I don't know whether you just need an outlet for your ideological axe-grinding, or whether you have an on-going feud with someone in this thread you happen to know is Labour, but your litany of personal attacks are well beyond acceptable.

mrjonno wrote: whether you use the word Jewish or Israeli. It would not be tolerated for any other country

Provably bullshit. In fact, that's the very thing you've avoided addressing.

mrjonno wrote:I can read without any problem, trying to wrap up bigotry in complex language doesn't make it any less bigoted.

The events that that happened in Cyprus have bugger all to do with Israel or the IDF other than it's their citizens. That is it.

Its their citizens.

mrjonno wrote:Haaretz are reporting on their own citizens which is fair play, anyone else mentioning it is taking the piss

Anyone else mentioning that they're Israeli citizens is a bigot.


So are you a bigot then, mrjonno? Or did you forget what your own previous attempted caricatures of painting everyone else as bigots entailed?

Spearthrower wrote:

Spearthrower wrote:

Spearthrower wrote:

Spearthrower wrote:


C'mon johnno - in for a penny!

Want to declare that Haaretz is being racist?

mrjohnno wrote:Haaretz are reporting on their own citizens which is fair play, anyone else mentioning it is taking the piss

Unfortunately your highly tuned sense of injustice overlooked some institutional racism, Johnno.

Haaretz reported that the arrested woman is British.

As she's British, she's not an Israeli citizen, ergo they're being racist.... right?

I'll wait while you flounder around for a moment.

Still floundering?

Still haven't found anywhere to latch onto here?

You could just backtrack - it might be humiliating, but it would seem the wisest course given how utterly foolish you've made yourself look.

So Haaretz IS being racist in accurately labeling the arrested women 'British'? No?

Then Haaretz isn't being racist in accurately labeling her British, and nor is the original article being racist in accurately labeling the alleged perpetrators 'Israeli', and nor is anyone else in this thread being racist in accurately labeling the alleged perpetrators' 'Israeli'.

You're rather stuck in a difficult situation here, aren't you mrjonno? You can't respond either way without looking either foolish or demolishing your own argument, which is why you have ignored it. You can indeed ignore it if you don't want to face the humiliation of backing down, or worse, digging yourself in even deeper to a position you can see is bloody stupid, but you can't ignore it and then continue making the same accusation you've thereby acknowledged doesn't even possess the most tenuous logical basis.

A heads-up to mrjonno...

Spearwaver is employing the same tactic (such as it is) that he employed against me in the 'Russia' thread. Ironically, you and he would perhaps be in agreement in that thread, but that's not important right now. My main point is this...
He's using the facile approach of simply trying to wear down his opponent.
View your screen from bit of a distance and look at the volume of his text versus your own. For every line you type, he types at least seven. His verbiage is designed to frustrate, not to inform or convince.
He'll lead you down side-streets with arguments that are vaguely related to the main point, or not related at all. He hopes only to wear you down... or "feed you until you explode".
Don't swallow his bucket-loads of rancid bait!

Mike_L wrote:A heads-up to mrjonno...

Spearwaver is employing the same tactic (such as it is) that he employed against me in the 'Russia' thread. Ironically, you and he would perhaps be in agreement in that thread, but that's not important right now. My main point is this...
He's using the facile approach of simply trying to wear down his opponent.
View your screen from bit of a distance and look at the volume of his text versus your own. For every line you type, he types at least seven. His verbiage is designed to frustrate, not to inform or convince.
He'll lead you down side-streets with arguments that are vaguely related to the main point, or not related at all. He hopes only to wear you down... or "feed you until you explode".
Don't swallow his bucket-loads of rancid bait!

You'd think you'd already damaged your own credibility enough as it is without cross-posting your unhappiness with me challenging your vacuous appeals to Kremlin propaganda and trying to support mrjonno's sweeping declarations of racist bigotry just to put one over on me. You even brought up style again, as if posting lots of words is meant to be nefarious on a discussion topic!

As with mrjonno, what you appear to be lacking is any support for any of your claims.

Dear Mike...

tuco wrote:Oh dear, Mike.

fixed it for you

Mike_L wrote:A heads-up to mrjonno...

Spearwaver is employing the same tactic (such as it is) that he employed against me in the 'Russia' thread. Ironically, you and he would perhaps be in agreement in that thread, but that's not important right now. My main point is this...
He's using the facile approach of simply trying to wear down his opponent.
View your screen from bit of a distance and look at the volume of his text versus your own. For every line you type, he types at least seven. His verbiage is designed to frustrate, not to inform or convince.
He'll lead you down side-streets with arguments that are vaguely related to the main point, or not related at all. He hopes only to wear you down... or "feed you until you explode".
Don't swallow his bucket-loads of rancid bait!

Oh I forgot Putin and Israel are allies these days

When crackpot worlds collide.

That does seem to be quite a stretch if it was asserted with seriousness.

To bring a little of the rigour over from other areas of these fora: mrjonno - cite or retract. You need to actually *show* that people have engaged in racist bigotry - it's not enough for you to simply write a sentence declaring it, although I appreciate that it may be the standard commonly employed in the Politics foru. Otherwise, I can simply declare that you're a pedophile and that all your responses in this thread are a result of you trying to hide the fact that you're a pedophile. Stupid, right? Utterly inane, right? Has no bearing on anything you've written, right? But nasty, intended to offend, and obviously spurious.... so basically exactly like your accusations of racist bigotry - an evidence free personal attack.

Mike_L wrote:A heads-up to mrjonno...

Spearwaver is employing the same tactic (such as it is) that he employed against me in the 'Russia' thread. Ironically, you and he would perhaps be in agreement in that thread, but that's not important right now. My main point is this...
He's using the facile approach of simply trying to wear down his opponent.
View your screen from bit of a distance and look at the volume of his text versus your own. For every line you type, he types at least seven. His verbiage is designed to frustrate, not to inform or convince.
He'll lead you down side-streets with arguments that are vaguely related to the main point, or not related at all. He hopes only to wear you down... or "feed you until you explode".
Don't swallow his bucket-loads of rancid bait!

I dunno what’s going on with you lately, but you’re typing a lot of nonsense in different threads.

A couple people got murdered in BC recently. It's often mentioned she was and American and he was Australian.

Is that bad?

Rachel Bronwyn wrote:A couple people got murdered in BC recently. It's often mentioned she was and American and he was Australian.

Is that bad?

Only if it was implying it was due to theirs or their assailant's culture/situation, if a gun was used I would indeed blame the availability of guns but that is a far as you can go

mrjonno wrote:

Rachel Bronwyn wrote:A couple people got murdered in BC recently. It's often mentioned she was and American and he was Australian.

Is that bad?

Only if it was implying it was due to theirs or their assailant's culture/situation, if a gun was used I would indeed blame the availability of guns but that is a far as you can go

What are you defending, here, other than statements you made previously? You should probably just shut up because, even if you have a point, and you may have one, you're apparently incapable of rendering it for other people to understand.

The first statements in this thread stating or implying that the alleged perpetrators of the reported rape are situated in a rape culture were made by electricwhiteboy. Are you defending your suggestion that these remarks were racist? The thread turned into garbage after that, because some people are wise to the idea that most Israelis are Jews, and some of those wise folks are fascinated by bad news originating in the middle East.

I don't think the remarks by EWB are particularly interesting except in view of the fact that the Israeli boys and/or men have apparently been released from custody by the police in Cyprus. Perhaps the worst that can be said about the remarks by EWB is that they were premature. What are we to make of such rash remarks? It wasn't as if they were about a plane crash, where we do not hold the pilot(s) responsible until the NTSB or other accident investigation body completes its study.