One bang one process.

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Re: One bang one process.

#2801  Postby Spearthrower » Aug 09, 2022 10:00 am

pfrankinstein wrote:
Only if we can also examine your ignorant baseless perpetuation of the mass Dunning_Kruger.


There's no point in complaining that this criticism is being leveled at you when you're the chap with a massively overinflated sense of their own ability comparative to their actual ability.

Add to that your endless self-eulogizing about your greatness when you lack the competence to write even a paragraph on the subject you've spent 2 decades pretending about, and you more than exemplify Dunning Kruger syndrome with 1 single caveat: in the classic exposition of illusory superiority, the people with low ability are not arrogant know-it-alls and are nearly always capable of recognizing, after seeing calibrating material, that their prior evaluation of their own knowledge was based on ignorance of the topic matter.

You, on the other hand, also employ confirmation bias wherein you simply ignore calibration - so when I show you what an actual science paper looks like, what details actual scientists are routinely expected to have command over - you don't reflect comparatively on your own ability - you just ignore it and pretend that it doesn't exist so you can continue to prop up this absurd fiction in which you're a genius.

A genius who can't write a single coherent sentence about the topic of which they claim to be a master! :lol:


pfrankinstein wrote:As self appointed gatekeeper of all that is "science",...


You're still nattering abject fuckwittery.

This forum isn't 'science' Paul. Even were I to accept your utterly asinine bullshit as true - that wouldn't amount to you having done science. Even if you could convince every individual at this forum of the validity of your ranting bollocks, you still wouldn't have achieved anything at all in terms of science. This isn't a venue in which science is conducted - by and large, that's true of all internet fora. As usual, you don't know your arse from your elbow.


pfrankinstein wrote:... and also self proclaimed expert in the subject known as EVOLUTION.


Of course, in reality I have made no such claim at all - this is just you engaging in your usual muppetry.

Comparative to you though, oh yeah, I am a fucking legend in terms of knowledge of evolution... but the same can probably be said of most scientifically informed teenagers, so it's not much of a useful comparison.

Also, the subject is not 'evolution' Paul - the subject there would be 'biological evolution'. You can go to university to study biological evolution (well, by 'you' I mean 'one can' because you obviously wouldn't be capable of achieving entry grades given how poorly you think and write) - but you can't go to university to study 'evolution' as it's not actually a coherent topic, you know, like I keep telling you, because the way in which things change over time isn't analogous or constrained by the same frame.


pfrankinstein wrote: I seek your concise definition.


You've been yammering witlessly for nearly 2 decades Paul, and you still don't know the definition despite it being written out for you dozens of times in this thread.


pfrankinstein wrote:Firstly. Let's re-examine the core value and understanding of the subject.


Ok - your understanding is immeasurable, close to zero. You rarely manage to even write a coherent sentence, let alone paragraphs or detailed explanations. This is the actual measure of your 'knowledge' - less than a sentence worth of information.


pfrankinstein wrote:So I ask of science:


Good luck getting science to listen to you.


pfrankinstein wrote:What exactly is EVOLUTION?


Another example of the tides of confusion apparent in your 'thinking'. You stated 'first let's do X' - and then you didn't do X, you leapt to asking a question.

Regardless, I know there are dozens of instances of people telling you in this thread what evolution is, and each time you arrogantly ignored those statements pretending to be a condescending genius. But here we are nearly 2 decades later, and you still don't even have this basic definition of evolution - it's a clown show Paul, and there's only one clown.


pfrankinstein wrote:key word :con·cise
[kənˈsʌɪs]
ADJECTIVE
giving a lot of information clearly and in a few words; brief but comprehensive:


Brilliant: you ask twice for a definition of evolution, then provide a definition of 'concise'.

Using that same dictionary, you can just look up the other word you're struggling with.


pfrankinstein wrote:
“If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.” ― Albert Einstein.


Then you're fucked given you can't write even a single coherent sentence.


pfrankinstein wrote:Plain for all to see. The writer runs off at a tangent to wax lyrically and so obscure, we can ask how did the writer convince himself and make the mistake of confusing 'effect or cause".

If/with every student on the same page, a baseline truth explanation can be had.


Yoda's prose is more intelligible.


pfrankinstein wrote:Do we have that short articulate answer Thower?


Yes: arrogance and ignorance combined are powerful drivers of stupidity.
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Re: One bang one process.

#2802  Postby Spearthrower » Aug 09, 2022 10:05 am

Spearthrower wrote:Let's confront your Dunning-Kruger once again, Paul.

Observe how quickly your mind scurries off somewhere safe and easy when presented with a real scientific paper with real science in it:

https://elifesciences.org/articles/76491

Mutational robustness changes during long-term adaptation in laboratory budding yeast populations

As an adapting population traverses the fitness landscape, its local neighborhood (i.e., the collection of fitness effects of single-step mutations) can change shape because of interactions with mutations acquired during evolution. These changes to the distribution of fitness effects can affect both the rate of adaptation and the accumulation of deleterious mutations. However, while numerous models of fitness landscapes have been proposed in the literature, empirical data on how this distribution changes during evolution remains limited. In this study, we directly measure how the fitness landscape neighborhood changes during laboratory adaptation. Using a barcode-based mutagenesis system, we measure the fitness effects of 91 specific gene disruption mutations in genetic backgrounds spanning 8000–10,000 generations of evolution in two constant environments. We find that the mean of the distribution of fitness effects decreases in one environment, indicating a reduction in mutational robustness, but does not change in the other. We show that these distribution-level patterns result from differences in the relative frequency of certain patterns of epistasis at the level of individual mutations, including fitness-correlated and idiosyncratic epistasis.



So what do you think, Paul?

Have they successfully made the case that the control coefficient of selection can affect the prevalence or magnitude of epistasis?



Yep: thought so.

Every time you're confronted with calibrating information from the real world - you turn tail and scurry off. Run rabbit, run!

This is your cognitive bias protecting itself from introspection.

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Morton%27s_demon

Morton's demon was a demon who sat at the gate of my sensory input apparatus and if and when he saw supportive evidence coming in, he opened the gate. But if he saw contradictory data coming in, he closed the gate. In this way, the demon allowed me to believe that I was right and to avoid any nasty contradictory data. Fortunately, I eventually realized that the demon was there and began to open the gate when he wasn't looking.

However, my conversations have made me aware that each YEC is a victim of my demon. Morton's demon makes it possible for a person to have his own set of private facts which others are not privy to, allowing the YEC to construct a theory which is perfectly supported by the facts which the demon lets through the gate. And since these are the only facts known to the victim, he feels in his heart that he has explained everything. Indeed, the demon makes people feel morally superior and more knowledgeable than others.

The demon makes its victim feel very comfortable as there is no contradictory data in view. The demon is better than a set of rose colored glasses. The demon's victim does not understand why everyone else doesn't fall down and accept the victim's views. After all, the world is thought to be as the victim sees it and the demon doesn't let through the gate the knowledge that others don't see the same thing. Because of this, the victim assumes that everyone else is biased...



The reason you believe the witless crap you keep spouting is because it seems plausible to you given your nearly infantile knowledge and comprehension of the topic matter. To anyone with even a passing clue, it just looks like it actually is: egotistical posturing.
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Re: One bang one process.

#2803  Postby pfrankinstein » Aug 09, 2022 1:45 pm

Spearthrower wrote:Yes, we have a short answer, Paul


Wrong


The epic fail eh thrower you got nowt.

Go on then educate me. Fact is you got Jack. Spout all you want, make your excuses.
You mistook the effect for the cause. The jigg is up. You and those of your like fool yourselves.

The writer stuck for words. :naughty2: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: One bang one process.

#2804  Postby pfrankinstein » Aug 09, 2022 2:25 pm

Let me help you thrower.

The dictionary meaning of EVOLUTION =

According to Charles Darwin EVOLUTION =

According to the self proclaimed gatekeeper of science and expert Evolution =

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Re: One bang one process.

#2805  Postby BWE » Aug 09, 2022 3:03 pm

Evolution =change over time

Hope that helps.
Biological evolution= species change over time
Hope that helps
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Re: One bang one process.

#2806  Postby Spearthrower » Aug 09, 2022 3:54 pm

pfrankinstein wrote:
Spearthrower wrote:Yes, we have a short answer, Paul


Wrong


The epic fail eh thrower you got nowt.


The epic fail of you having spent nearly 2 decades of your life trying to scam strangers into believing you know your arse from your elbow?

We know you've got nothing, Paul - we keep telling you.


pfrankinstein wrote:Go on then educate me.


This thread is testament to the fact that your arrogance precludes you from being educated. Education isn't a one way task where expert knowledge is simply proffered - the student needs to be able to engage their brain, possess some degree of basic competence etc.



pfrankinstein wrote:Fact is you got Jack. Spout all you want, make your excuses.


We all know very well who has shown knowledge and expertise and who hasn't Paul.

In fact, this mindless diversion was debunked last about 15 pages ago when you tried this and half a dozen other people dropped by to point out that you give every impression of not knowing your arse from your elbow.

Meanwhile, of course, it's pretty fucking obvious to anyone with half a clue that I am not just making up shit as I go along, nor am I engaging in your form of public masturbation wherein I try to make myself look good to complete fucking strangers on the internet.


pfrankinstein wrote:You mistook the effect for the cause.


We've already addressed and dispelled your naive and juvenile comprehension of causality - it's in this very thread. I'll be happy to go back and quote the total fucking fool you made of yourself before if you like?


pfrankinstein wrote: The jigg is up. You and those of your like fool yourselves.


You really do make yourself look like a total fucking plonker when you try to be condescending but can't manage to write a simple sentence in a grammatically coherent manner.


pfrankinstein wrote:The writer stuck for words. :naughty2: :lol: :lol: :lol:


No one's stuck for words, Paul.

The reality is that you're just asking me to repeat yet again things I've already told you before, and I recall how well that went the first three dozen times. If you want an answer, you're going to need to actually engage your mind. Not much chance of that, eh?
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Re: One bang one process.

#2807  Postby Spearthrower » Aug 09, 2022 3:55 pm

pfrankinstein wrote:Let me help you thrower.

The dictionary meaning of EVOLUTION =

According to Charles Darwin EVOLUTION =

According to the self proclaimed gatekeeper of science and expert Evolution =

Paul.



For clarity:

You proclaimed me a gatekeeper of science.
You proclaimed me an expert on evolution.

I did neither.

Stop acting like a mendacious little runt, Paul.
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Re: One bang one process.

#2808  Postby Spearthrower » Aug 09, 2022 3:55 pm

BWE wrote:Evolution =change over time

Hope that helps.
Biological evolution= species change over time
Hope that helps


:lol:
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Re: One bang one process.

#2809  Postby Spearthrower » Aug 09, 2022 3:56 pm

Spearthrower wrote:https://elifesciences.org/articles/76491

Mutational robustness changes during long-term adaptation in laboratory budding yeast populations

As an adapting population traverses the fitness landscape, its local neighborhood (i.e., the collection of fitness effects of single-step mutations) can change shape because of interactions with mutations acquired during evolution. These changes to the distribution of fitness effects can affect both the rate of adaptation and the accumulation of deleterious mutations. However, while numerous models of fitness landscapes have been proposed in the literature, empirical data on how this distribution changes during evolution remains limited. In this study, we directly measure how the fitness landscape neighborhood changes during laboratory adaptation. Using a barcode-based mutagenesis system, we measure the fitness effects of 91 specific gene disruption mutations in genetic backgrounds spanning 8000–10,000 generations of evolution in two constant environments. We find that the mean of the distribution of fitness effects decreases in one environment, indicating a reduction in mutational robustness, but does not change in the other. We show that these distribution-level patterns result from differences in the relative frequency of certain patterns of epistasis at the level of individual mutations, including fitness-correlated and idiosyncratic epistasis.



You can almost smell the burning as Paul's mind flees relevant details as fast as it can scurry.
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Re: One bang one process.

#2810  Postby pfrankinstein » Aug 09, 2022 4:23 pm

BWE wrote:Evolution =change over time

Hope that helps.
Biological evolution= species change over time
Hope that helps


According to Charles Darwin evolution is the "process of descent with modification by means of Natural selection".

From Darwin's lips to my mind for you to reconsider your position.

To Test and retest; A procedure respected by science.
You can see I'm up against it. Mass Kruger perpetuated by the confident writer.

Testing the core understanding doing science here mods.. :whistle: :think: :?






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Re: One bang one process.

#2811  Postby BWE » Aug 09, 2022 4:30 pm

Feel free to complicate things however you like. Systems evolve. Gaia is a system. Life is a part of that system. We have a special interest in life since we are among that category. Here's some vocabulary of the day: autopoeiesis and dissipative structures
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Re: One bang one process.

#2812  Postby Cito di Pense » Aug 09, 2022 4:58 pm

BWE wrote:Feel free to complicate things however you like. Systems evolve. Gaia is a system. Life is a part of that system. We have a special interest in life since we are among that category. Here's some vocabulary of the day: autopoeiesis and dissipative structures


But speculation about whether the universe is an open or closed system doesn't summon any doubt for me about the fact that stellar systems end by dissiapting their energy, the energy that drives dissipative structures, until it doesn't drive anything, the old second law that does actually have observations to bring to bear and that don't involve a lot of speculation.
Хлопнут без некролога. -- Серге́й Па́влович Королёв

Translation by Elbert Hubbard: Do not take life too seriously. You're not going to get out of it alive.
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Re: One bang one process.

#2813  Postby Spearthrower » Aug 09, 2022 6:06 pm

pfrankinstein wrote:
From Darwin's lips to my mind for you to reconsider your position.



Darwin's bull's gnat.
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Re: One bang one process.

#2814  Postby Spearthrower » Aug 09, 2022 6:09 pm

pfrankinstein wrote:
Testing the core understanding doing science here mods.. :whistle: :think: :?


You have repeatedly exhibited no functional understanding of science.

My 9 year old son, coming from a state education system that is far from known throughout the world for its excellence, could still offer a dramatically more comprehensive and capable account of science than you.

You have, of course, been educated about this. You have, of course, pretended to know everything even while manifestly not having any idea at all.

Observation, evidence, falsifiable hypothesis, experimentation, report.

Do you have ANY of these?

No, no of course you don't - even now after nearly 2 decades, you still don't understand why this remains scientific method while whatever it is you're doing remains not scientific in the slightest.

Thus, 'pseudoscience' is the most relevant subforum for your nonsensical wittering, and will remain so. :)
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Re: One bang one process.

#2815  Postby Spearthrower » Aug 09, 2022 6:15 pm

From Darwin's lips to my mind for you to reconsider your position.


Or, you know, you could just read about Darwin's idea, then learn about all the intervening decades of scientific discovery thus not only garnering a clue about what biological evolution entails, but also not having it run through an English to wittering gobbledegook translator.

http://www.rationalskepticism.org/post2 ... c#p2785988

We all know Paul. Every one of us reading this thread knows.
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Re: One bang one process.

#2816  Postby BWE » Aug 09, 2022 7:39 pm

Cito di Pense wrote:
BWE wrote:Feel free to complicate things however you like. Systems evolve. Gaia is a system. Life is a part of that system. We have a special interest in life since we are among that category. Here's some vocabulary of the day: autopoeiesis and dissipative structures


But speculation about whether the universe is an open or closed system doesn't summon any doubt for me about the fact that stellar systems end by dissiapting their energy, the energy that drives dissipative structures, until it doesn't drive anything, the old second law that does actually have observations to bring to bear and that don't involve a lot of speculation.

Meh. It's obviously sound. But there are issues involving assumptions. One of which is that it requires a God's eye view and another is that it holds a littlebitof Newton'sabsolute space and time among its baggage.. But I'm not saying it's wrong, just possibly incomplete or maybe framed in such a way as to obscure a more general process.
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Re: One bang one process.

#2817  Postby Cito di Pense » Aug 09, 2022 8:14 pm

BWE wrote:
Cito di Pense wrote:
BWE wrote:Feel free to complicate things however you like. Systems evolve. Gaia is a system. Life is a part of that system. We have a special interest in life since we are among that category. Here's some vocabulary of the day: autopoeiesis and dissipative structures


But speculation about whether the universe is an open or closed system doesn't summon any doubt for me about the fact that stellar systems end by dissiapting their energy, the energy that drives dissipative structures, until it doesn't drive anything, the old second law that does actually have observations to bring to bear and that don't involve a lot of speculation.

Meh. It's obviously sound. But there are issues involving assumptions. One of which is that it requires a God's eye view and another is that it holds a littlebitof Newton'sabsolute space and time among its baggage.. But I'm not saying it's wrong, just possibly incomplete or maybe framed in such a way as to obscure a more general process.


"There are issues involving assumptions; {sotto voce] not gonna say what those are." Framing issues belong in the filosofeezing subforum. I'll see your "meh" and raise you a yawn.
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Re: One bang one process.

#2818  Postby BWE » Aug 09, 2022 9:09 pm

Lol. Ok.
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Re: One bang one process.

#2819  Postby Cito di Pense » Aug 10, 2022 5:04 am

BWE wrote:Lol. Ok.


LOL indeed. You claim to have all this experience in studying complex and dissipative systems, but there's always a problem in imparting that knowledge to make your arguments because hand-held device. So you make a lot of suggestive claims. LOL indeed.
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Re: One bang one process.

#2820  Postby pfrankinstein » Aug 10, 2022 2:21 pm

Spearthrower wrote:
pfrankinstein wrote:Let me help you thrower.

The dictionary meaning of EVOLUTION =

According to Charles Darwin EVOLUTION =

According to the self proclaimed gatekeeper of science and expert Evolution =

Paul.



For clarity:

You proclaimed me a gatekeeper of science.
You proclaimed me an expert on evolution.

I did neither.

Stop acting like a mendacious little runt, Paul.


You accuse me of not doing science. You believe you know EVOLUTION.

You know I value your opinion, as if by peer review.

What is EVOLUTION?; should be a question on an exam paper so students of the future do not make the same mistake you made eh THROWER?

The seemingly small process fact; at what age can you start to teach children about the subject?

How do feel about the label 'chapter process' to better describe encapsulate the Darwinian biological process?

Would that "label" be seen as taking a liberty?

What say you writer?

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