- does a normally functioning human body contain multiple consciousnesses? Why / why not?
- perhaps the subconsciousness is actually a seperate consciousness communicating with our dominant C?
- what about microbes in the gut?
- can one consciousness split into multiple? If so, how, and can they merge back again?
- are there any experiments, drugs, surgery, diseases, etc. that shed light on these questions?
- etc.

There's no such thing as the subconscious. In addition, consciousness isn't attached to our body, it is a function of it.

chairman bill wrote:There's no such thing as the subconscious. In addition, consciousness isn't attached to our body, it is a function of it.

Whats a function? Can you give an example of a physical function to clarify?

I don't even take it for granted that consciousness is a thing which is 'attatched' to my body. It's like saying Crash Bandicoot is attached to my PlayStation, rather than being a product of its functioning. I can't answer your questions as they follow from a faulty and rather incoherent premise.

EDIT; pl0bs has edited out his premise and now is only asking a bunch of questions for no reason.

Animavore wrote:I don't even take it for granted that consciousness is a thing which is 'attatched' to my body. It's like saying Crash Bandicoot is attached to my PlayStation, rather than being a product of its functioning. I can't answer your questions as they follow from a faulty and rather incoherent premise.

There can easily be two crash bandicoots on a PS. So you think there can be multiple Cs in one body?

Animavore wrote:EDIT; pl0bs has edited out his premise and now is only asking a bunch of questions for no reason.

Yubs, the questions are what the topic is about. I noticed some ppl got stuck in the terminology used, which is always a risk when dealing with philosophers...

pl0bs wrote:

Animavore wrote:I don't even take it for granted that consciousness is a thing which is 'attatched' to my body. It's like saying Crash Bandicoot is attached to my PlayStation, rather than being a product of its functioning. I can't answer your questions as they follow from a faulty and rather incoherent premise.

There can easily be two crash bandicoots on a PS. So you think there can be multiple Cs in one body?

Sure. Check out split brain people.
Funny how damage to the brain can split out our consciousness, but crapping out some gut microbes does nothing. It's like there's some link between the brain and consciousness.

Animavore wrote:

pl0bs wrote:

Animavore wrote:I don't even take it for granted that consciousness is a thing which is 'attatched' to my body. It's like saying Crash Bandicoot is attached to my PlayStation, rather than being a product of its functioning. I can't answer your questions as they follow from a faulty and rather incoherent premise.

There can easily be two crash bandicoots on a PS. So you think there can be multiple Cs in one body?

Sure. Check out split brain people.
Funny how damage to the brain can split out our consciousness, but crapping out some gut microbes does nothing. It's like there's some link between the brain and consciousness.

Just like the electric eels organ. Its funny, an irrational person would conclude that electric charge originates in eels.

Do you assume the microbes in the gut arent conscious?

pl0bs wrote:

Animavore wrote:

pl0bs wrote:

Animavore wrote:I don't even take it for granted that consciousness is a thing which is 'attatched' to my body. It's like saying Crash Bandicoot is attached to my PlayStation, rather than being a product of its functioning. I can't answer your questions as they follow from a faulty and rather incoherent premise.

There can easily be two crash bandicoots on a PS. So you think there can be multiple Cs in one body?

Sure. Check out split brain people.
Funny how damage to the brain can split out our consciousness, but crapping out some gut microbes does nothing. It's like there's some link between the brain and consciousness.

Just like the electric eels organ. Its funny, an irrational person would conclude that electric charge originates in eels.

Do you assume the microbes in the gut arent conscious?

Funny how we can know and demonstrate an electric charge and can describe how an electric eel generates one , but you can do no such thing with C or how the brain generates it.

Your analogy is redundant. You are not describing like for like.

pl0bs wrote:... always a risk when dealing with philosophers...

I'm not a philosopher, I'm a psychologist

Animavore wrote:

pl0bs wrote:

Animavore wrote:

pl0bs wrote:There can easily be two crash bandicoots on a PS. So you think there can be multiple Cs in one body?

Sure. Check out split brain people.
Funny how damage to the brain can split out our consciousness, but crapping out some gut microbes does nothing. It's like there's some link between the brain and consciousness.

Just like the electric eels organ. Its funny, an irrational person would conclude that electric charge originates in eels.

Do you assume the microbes in the gut arent conscious?

Funny how we can know and demonstrate an electric charge and can describe how an electric eel generates one , but you can do no such thing with C or how the brain generates it.

Its funny how it scares ppl that C is invisible, and they react by trying to wish it away. Btw, if C is just a normal physical thing, why cant you observe it just like electric charge. Winning!

Your analogy is redundant. You are not describing like for like.

Im just using all of nature as an analogy. It helps to get rid of supernaturalism.

pl0bs wrote:Its funny how it scares ppl that C is invisible

Evidence?

and they react by trying to wish it away.

Evience?

[deluded]Winning![still_fucking_deluded]Really?[/quote]



Edit: formatting

chairman bill wrote:

pl0bs wrote:Its funny how it scares ppl that C is invisible [/quote[Evidence?

and they react by trying to wish it away.

Evience?

Materialism.

Pwned.

pl0bs wrote:Its funny how it scares ppl that C is invisible, and they react by trying to wish it away.

It's funny how this sentence doesn't reflect my position at all. BTW, it's a little more than convenient that your 'C' is invisible and undetectable.

pl0bs wrote:Btw, if C is just a normal physical thing, why cant you observe it just like electric charge.

I dunno. You're the one who used the analogy comparing the brains generation of C to the eel's generation of electricity. Why should I answer your questions for you?

pl0bs wrote:Im just using all of nature as an analogy. It helps to get rid of supernaturalism.

How does describing something which you imply above is not a 'normal, physical thing' in terms of normal, physical things help get rid of the 'supernatural', a word which by definition describes things which are not normal, physical things?

pl0bs wrote:Materialism.

Pwned.

Er, that does't actually answer the questions, so not 'pwned'

Animavore wrote:

pl0bs wrote:Its funny how it scares ppl that C is invisible, and they react by trying to wish it away.

It's funny how this sentence doesn't reflect my position at all. BTW, it's a little more than convenient that your 'C' is invisible and undetectable.

Thats just reality. Not my fault.

pl0bs wrote:Btw, if C is just a normal physical thing, why cant you observe it just like electric charge.

I dunno. You're the one who used the analogy comparing the brains generation of C to the eel's generation of electricity. Why should I answer your questions for you?

pl0bs wrote:Im just using all of nature as an analogy. It helps to get rid of supernaturalism.

How does describing something which you imply above is not a 'normal, physical thing' in terms of normal, physical things help get rid of the 'supernatural', a word which by definition describes things which are not normal, physical things?

Just look at nature to find solutions to questions about C. Physical things are natural, and so is C.

My thirteen year old son has thankfully passed through the phase of using the term "pwned".

pl0bs wrote:Just look at nature to find solutions to questions about C. Physical things are natural, and so is C.

So what is your solution to the question of how the brain interacts with C?
Why doesn splitting a material brain stop the flow of an immaterial substance from interacting across it?
Why a brain at all? Why do we need brains if C is its own thing?
Are there different kinds of C relating to different kinds of experience; sight, sound, smell, taste?
If not, how is C expressed differently to create sight, sound, smell and taste etc?
Where is C expressed?



Solutions to questions my arse. You, and all your other immaterialist friends on this site so far, haven't even begun to tackle these types of questions.

Animavore wrote:

pl0bs wrote:Just look at nature to find solutions to questions about C. Physical things are natural, and so is C.

So what is your solution to the question of how the brain interacts with C?
Why doesn splitting a material brain stop the flow of an immaterial substance from interacting across it?
Why a brain at all? Why do we need brains if C is its own thing?
Are there different kinds of C relating to different kinds of experience; sight, sound, smell, taste?
If not, how is C expressed differently to create sight, sound, smell and taste etc?
Where is C expressed?

Solutions to questions my arse. You, and all your other immaterialist friends on this site so far, haven't even begun to tackle these types of questions.

To all your questions above: just look at the electric eels organ. When you hit it with a hammer, its ability to give electric shocks is also impaired. But the electric charge doesnt vanish into nothingness. Maybe if you shove a metal plate into the organ, you can also end up with 2 seperate shocks (who knows?). The brain is also just a specialised organ that makes use of something that already existed (consciousness) to aid survival of the organism. Because of the complex structure of the brain, the experiences the organism has are also complex and varied. A simple brain has simple C, a complex brain has complex C. Of course, a nonbrain will have a very simple C. Compare it to jumping into a bathtub. Before you jump in, the water is calm and homogeneous, but when you jump in the shape of the water becomes complex and it splashes everywhere. Remove yourself and it returns to its calm state. Btw, the different senses are not different consciousness that began seperately and then connected to form a whole. They are the result of a simple C branching and differentiating into seperate directions, depending on how useful each is for survival. Remove one sense and one is still conscious. Remove them all and one is still conscious. Only the variety and complexity of the experiences changes. Also, because of the non-spatial nature of C, it likely has its origin before the arisal of space.

pl0bs wrote:To all your questions above: just look at the electric eels organ.

Do I look to an electric eel's organ when I want to understand how the heart works?
Your analogy is getting dumber.

pl0bs wrote: When you hit it with a hammer, its ability to give electric shocks is also impaired. But the electric charge doesnt vanish into nothingness.

Neither does the electric charges in the brain. What's your point?

pl0bs wrote:The brain is also just a specialised organ that makes use of something that already existed (consciousness) to aid survival of the organism.

So you keep saying, but you haven't described how it does this in the same way we've described how the electric eel generates electricity. Until you do that I don't even know how you can make the assertion that the brain makes use of C. You're just saying stuff.

pl0bs wrote:Because of the complex structure of the brain, the experiences the organism has are also complex and varied. A simple brain has simple C, a complex brain has complex C.

This fucks up your analogy even further. Electric charges are electric charges. It doesn't matter how complex the machine is that generates them. It's still the same thing. There is no complexity to fundamental particles.

What is the relationship between complexity of material substance and the complexity of immaterial substance? Why does one affect the other?

pl0bs wrote:Compare it to jumping into a bathtub. Before you jump in, the water is calm and homogeneous, but when you jump in the shape of the water becomes complex and it splashes everywhere.

Water isn't like electricity at all. Your analogies are wild and all over the place.

pl0bs wrote:Btw, the different senses are not different consciousness that began seperately and then connected to form a whole. They are the result of a simple C branching and differentiating into seperate directions, depending on how useful each is for survival.

Explain this process otherwise all you're doing is saying stuff.

pl0bs wrote:Remove one sense and one is still conscious. Remove them all and one is still conscious. Only the variety and complexity of the experiences changes.

Explain how C has variety? How does C make use of the information one gets from vibrations in the ear to create sound?