Juliuseizure wrote:Why aren't Christian young earth creationists and evolution deniers called Christianists? Islamophobia.

Cretonist?

Shrunk wrote:

SafeAsMilk wrote:

mattwilson wrote:I've said it before and I'll say it again, I would kiss PZ on the bum

You should save your kisses for the bums of the Islamists, they looked pretty butt-hurt by the end of the video

No they didn't. They looked defiantly, obliviously victorious. It was a great, but depressing, exhibition of Morton's Demon at work.

"The Quran says that, in the embryo, bone is formed first, then muscle, then flesh."

"Well, then, the Quran is wrong. I'm an embryologist and I know they all form simultaneously."

"Then the Quran is correct! It says, linguistically, that they all form simultaneously! Alhamdulillah!"

How do you argue with someone whose brain is malfunctioning like that?

That was my favorite part. No matter what you say, the Koran said it first. All the answers are in the Koran...you just have to actually do all the leg work to figure out which answer is the right one

Call me an idealist, but I thought I could see some (at least subconscious) recognition of the cognitive dissonance going on there...each time they got called on one of their stupid arguments, their grins and chuckles got bigger and faker. I find it hard to imagine anyone was taking anything that they said seriously by the time they got to the "that's an existentialist argument" part.

HughMcB wrote:

Juliuseizure wrote:Why aren't Christian young earth creationists and evolution deniers called Christianists? Islamophobia.

Cretonist?

Smart idea, but the media would never? run with it. I think christiaists is the appropriate term but then where is the line drawn. Is anybody who espouses sharia principles (such as a legal punishment for marital infidelity) an islamist? Just call them extremist/radical muslims for now I say. Calling them islamists opens a pandoras box of prejudicial terminology which can only serve to aggravate the situation.

Juliuseizure wrote:

HughMcB wrote:

Juliuseizure wrote:Why aren't Christian young earth creationists and evolution deniers called Christianists? Islamophobia.

Cretonist?

Smart idea, but the media would never? run with it. I think christiaists is the appropriate term but then where is the line drawn. Is anybody who espouses sharia principles (such as a legal punishment for marital infidelity) an islamist? Just call them extremist/radical muslims for now I say. Calling them islamists opens a pandoras box of prejudicial terminology which can only serve to aggravate the situation.

i don't think that muslims who advocate sharia are extremist or radical,they are fundamentalists but so are all muslims in theory.

And so are all Christians in that many believe the bible to be the word of mr God.

I suppose it boils down to whether people believe every word of the holy texts to be literally true or not. I bet most Muslims wouldn't advocate chopping off somebody's hand for stealing food they need to feed their family.

i think there is an exception for when stealing is done out of hunger.
muslims are much stricter than christians in general when sticking to their "holy" book,ask a muslim if they believe everything that the quran says and then ask some christians about the bible.

cherries wrote:i think there is an exception for when stealing is done out of hunger.
muslims are much stricter than christians in general when sticking to their "holy" book,ask a muslim if they believe everything that the quran says and then ask some christians about the bible.

I agree mostly but the thing is Islam is just at a thinner edge of the wedge imo, as in there is some criticism of the quran by most muslims where as there seems a bit more criticism of the bible by most Christians. Perhaps that's because of the obvious absurdity if the old testament (eg Jonah and the Whale/ Noah's Ark) whereas Islam is distanced frame that stuff. Islam is more modern, technically.

where do muslims criticize the quran?

Every day, all over the world.

Juliuseizure wrote:Every day, all over the world.

sorry, haven't met any yet

cherries wrote:i don't think that muslims who advocate sharia are extremist or radical,they are fundamentalists but so are all muslims in theory.

The situation is sufficiently confused that it may be difficult to tell if they are extremist or not.

If by Sharia they mean theocracy, then that's extremist.

If by Sharia they mean don't eat pork, that's not fundamentalist, extremist or radicalised.

If someone says 'we should live by Sharia' but doesn't qualify if that means diet or theocracy then we can default to saying it sounds like an extremist position, until it is clarified and qualified.

HomerJay wrote:

cherries wrote:i don't think that muslims who advocate sharia are extremist or radical,they are fundamentalists but so are all muslims in theory.

The situation is sufficiently confused that it may be difficult to tell if they are extremist or not.

If by Sharia they mean theocracy, then that's extremist.

If by Sharia they mean don't eat pork, that's not fundamentalist, extremist or radicalised.

If someone says 'we should live by Sharia' but doesn't qualify if that means diet or theocracy then we can default to saying it sounds like an extremist position, until it is clarified and qualified.

i think muslims are extremists if religion is set before everything else,even if it means suffering and deprivation for people.
so yes a theocracy like for example iran is run by extremists but some other countries which apply sharia law but also secular law can be moderate.

cherries wrote:

HomerJay wrote:

cherries wrote:i don't think that muslims who advocate sharia are extremist or radical,they are fundamentalists but so are all muslims in theory.

The situation is sufficiently confused that it may be difficult to tell if they are extremist or not.

If by Sharia they mean theocracy, then that's extremist.

If by Sharia they mean don't eat pork, that's not fundamentalist, extremist or radicalised.

If someone says 'we should live by Sharia' but doesn't qualify if that means diet or theocracy then we can default to saying it sounds like an extremist position, until it is clarified and qualified.

i think muslims are extremists if religion is set before everything else,even if it means suffering and deprivation for people.
so yes a theocracy like for example iran is run by extremists but some other countries which apply sharia law but also secular law can be moderate.

Yet Shia Islam, by which Iran (fairly uniquely) is nominally ruled, is the most moderate discipline of Islam by many reckonings, espousing equal inheritance rights for women and temporary marriages to accommodate fairly casual sex for instance.

cherries wrote:where do muslims criticize the quran?

There are a lot, I use to be one of them until I became an atheist. Most muslims I have met that question the Quran typically don't follow it either, it just becomes more of a family/cultural heritage in a way. I have not met many that criticize in public though, something I have been encourage more and more.

The Koran says it, i believe it, therefore it's settled. Yay for science.

Juliuseizure wrote:

cherries wrote:

HomerJay wrote:
The situation is sufficiently confused that it may be difficult to tell if they are extremist or not.

If by Sharia they mean theocracy, then that's extremist.

If by Sharia they mean don't eat pork, that's not fundamentalist, extremist or radicalised.

If someone says 'we should live by Sharia' but doesn't qualify if that means diet or theocracy then we can default to saying it sounds like an extremist position, until it is clarified and qualified.

i think muslims are extremists if religion is set before everything else,even if it means suffering and deprivation for people.
so yes a theocracy like for example iran is run by extremists but some other countries which apply sharia law but also secular law can be moderate.

Yet Shia Islam, by which Iran (fairly uniquely) is nominally ruled, is the most moderate discipline of Islam by many reckonings, espousing equal inheritance rights for women and temporary marriages to accommodate fairly casual sex for instance.

Moderate compared to what? They still stone adulterers and execute apostates.

Hugin wrote:

Juliuseizure wrote:

cherries wrote:

i think muslims are extremists if religion is set before everything else,even if it means suffering and deprivation for people.
so yes a theocracy like for example iran is run by extremists but some other countries which apply sharia law but also secular law can be moderate.

Yet Shia Islam, by which Iran (fairly uniquely) is nominally ruled, is the most moderate discipline of Islam by many reckonings, espousing equal inheritance rights for women and temporary marriages to accommodate fairly casual sex for instance.

Moderate compared to what? They still stone adulterers and execute apostates.

That's true, and it's retarded but they don't kill that many really. When was the last time they executed somebody for apostacy? Have you never heard of a westerner saying/doing they'd kill their mrs if she cheated? How many do they execute in the states? Far more US citizens are incarcerated drug addicts and habitual terrifying criminals than in Iran IMO.

HomerJay wrote:

cherries wrote:i don't think that muslims who advocate sharia are extremist or radical,they are fundamentalists but so are all muslims in theory.

The situation is sufficiently confused that it may be difficult to tell if they are extremist or not.

If by Sharia they mean theocracy, then that's extremist.

If by Sharia they mean don't eat pork, that's not fundamentalist, extremist or radicalised.

If someone says 'we should live by Sharia' but doesn't qualify if that means diet or theocracy then we can default to saying it sounds like an extremist position, until it is clarified and qualified.

I think the dividing line is easlily discerned, and is defined by whether the person believes Sharia should only be followed by Muslims who choose to do so, or should be imposed on people regardless of their personal beliefs.

Shrunk wrote:

HomerJay wrote:

cherries wrote:i don't think that muslims who advocate sharia are extremist or radical,they are fundamentalists but so are all muslims in theory.

The situation is sufficiently confused that it may be difficult to tell if they are extremist or not.

If by Sharia they mean theocracy, then that's extremist.

If by Sharia they mean don't eat pork, that's not fundamentalist, extremist or radicalised.

If someone says 'we should live by Sharia' but doesn't qualify if that means diet or theocracy then we can default to saying it sounds like an extremist position, until it is clarified and qualified.

I think the dividing line is easlily discerned, and is defined by whether the person believes Sharia should only be followed by Muslims who choose to do so, or should be imposed on people regardless of their personal beliefs.

Like the law on marijuana you mean?

Imza wrote:

cherries wrote:where do muslims criticize the quran?

There are a lot, I use to be one of them until I became an atheist. Most muslims I have met that question the Quran typically don't follow it either, it just becomes more of a family/cultural heritage in a way. I have not met many that criticize in public though, something I have been encourage more and more.

once you question the quran,gods word and stick to it your in en defect not a muslim anymore,in your mind of course it will happen all the time but you can't/wont do it openly,in a muslim country anyway.